kleinalpine
Retro Guru
Re:
Quality!!!
Quality!!!
Just built a 29'er. Will I ever ride on 26" wheels again?
- Thread starter NeilM
- Start date
PurpleFrog
Kona Fan
I finally managed to find some ride tests with times:
So -
- Difference big in terms of racing between riders with evenly matched levels of skill
- Difference (as reported) small in most other contexts and wouldn't to my mind justify the enthusiasm shown by some people here. This maybe because less skilled riders get a bigger boost from 29ers than race-grade riders, or because of the placebo effect, or because some people here get much more excited by a 5% performance increase than I do.
So -
- Difference big in terms of racing between riders with evenly matched levels of skill
- Difference (as reported) small in most other contexts and wouldn't to my mind justify the enthusiasm shown by some people here. This maybe because less skilled riders get a bigger boost from 29ers than race-grade riders, or because of the placebo effect, or because some people here get much more excited by a 5% performance increase than I do.
Re:
One thing not captured by the above tests I feel is that simply jumping on a 29er and expecting to be able to ascertain difference from the get go won't really work. When I first got mine I'd say it took a number of months to exploiting the bigger wheel, I started to notice obstacles that I was cleaning easier than had I been on a 26er, but it did take this period to reset my riding and have confidence in the the new wheel size. Inversely now when I'm riding a 26er* I often get tripped up on roots and rocks that I'd have expected to roll.
*The 26er (Cotic Soul) is only a very shoogily peg at the moment.
One thing not captured by the above tests I feel is that simply jumping on a 29er and expecting to be able to ascertain difference from the get go won't really work. When I first got mine I'd say it took a number of months to exploiting the bigger wheel, I started to notice obstacles that I was cleaning easier than had I been on a 26er, but it did take this period to reset my riding and have confidence in the the new wheel size. Inversely now when I'm riding a 26er* I often get tripped up on roots and rocks that I'd have expected to roll.
*The 26er (Cotic Soul) is only a very shoogily peg at the moment.
PurpleFrog
Kona Fan
Re: Re:
No offense, but that's a personality thing. Other people who are happier to take more risks - and who have been racing against 29ers - will have a pretty good idea where the limits are and won't mind pushing it until they find them.
When you look at actual race times, the 29er/26 gap is very much 5%. Or this test was ridden by one of the main advocates of 29ers, so I think we can take it as upwards bound:
That's more than 5%, but still not something I'd change a bike for if I wasn't racing. And you can find tests where 26s come out on top:
http://kitesurfbikerambling.wordpress.c ... acer-test/
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dave-ha ... -challenge
My suspicion is that
1. Whether a 26 or 29er with a really good rider is faster will depend on the track (with a 5% edge to the 29er on what might be an "average" track)
2. That bike companies can influence track design at will
3. That the 29er switch was very profitable for those companies
4. That 29ers are a bit easier to ride for less skilled riders because the stuff they're better at - just riding over things - is easy, while the stuff they are worse at - eg fast direction changes and pumping - are hard
5. That the lower bb re the the axles is a strong confidence booster
6. That these characteristics combined with placebo effect give a decent boost to riders who aren't in the top 10% of the talent pool
This makes sense, because if there really was a big edge - say 20% - for race grade riders, then the bike companies would have proved this over and over in testing and 29ers would have conquered racing overnight. So a 5% edge in racing (possibly helped by some degree of influence in track design) has been used to market the impression of a vague but larger improvement in performance that justified buying new bikes.
I know a some people will be annoyed by the above and say that they don't suffer from the placebo effect. But, hey, science says that you do. Science!
kaiser":c837cfdk said:
No offense, but that's a personality thing. Other people who are happier to take more risks - and who have been racing against 29ers - will have a pretty good idea where the limits are and won't mind pushing it until they find them.
When you look at actual race times, the 29er/26 gap is very much 5%. Or this test was ridden by one of the main advocates of 29ers, so I think we can take it as upwards bound:
That's more than 5%, but still not something I'd change a bike for if I wasn't racing. And you can find tests where 26s come out on top:
http://kitesurfbikerambling.wordpress.c ... acer-test/
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dave-ha ... -challenge
My suspicion is that
1. Whether a 26 or 29er with a really good rider is faster will depend on the track (with a 5% edge to the 29er on what might be an "average" track)
2. That bike companies can influence track design at will
3. That the 29er switch was very profitable for those companies
4. That 29ers are a bit easier to ride for less skilled riders because the stuff they're better at - just riding over things - is easy, while the stuff they are worse at - eg fast direction changes and pumping - are hard
5. That the lower bb re the the axles is a strong confidence booster
6. That these characteristics combined with placebo effect give a decent boost to riders who aren't in the top 10% of the talent pool
This makes sense, because if there really was a big edge - say 20% - for race grade riders, then the bike companies would have proved this over and over in testing and 29ers would have conquered racing overnight. So a 5% edge in racing (possibly helped by some degree of influence in track design) has been used to market the impression of a vague but larger improvement in performance that justified buying new bikes.
I know a some people will be annoyed by the above and say that they don't suffer from the placebo effect. But, hey, science says that you do. Science!
PurpleFrog
Kona Fan
..A big factor in mtb design has to be the incompetence of most people riding a $2000 bike. They can pedal and turn the handlebars, but probably a minority know what pumping is or that they should use counterpressure and hip motion to steer. If you've mastered these skills and can bunny hop, then congratulations, you're in the top 10% of riders. So a bike that makes these skills harder to use but less needed is highly marketable.
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