Jack Taylor 'Rough Stuff' 1979 (1953-1974)

[GeoffApps]

Cleland riding techniques

Hiy'all

I'm reminded of the technique we used (I still use) on a long road downhill, not really recommended for off-road, but done occasionally:
- slide off the back of the saddle
- lower bum until you feel the mudguard or carrier
- rest chest on saddle
- right hand off handlebar and grip headstock
- lower head to peer forwards through the handlebar
- left hand covers rear brake
- and go like stink

It was surprising how much acceleration could be achieved this way; I remember whizzing past other riders not using this technique because of their shot-forward low-level handlebars.

 

[GeoffApps]

Cleland riding techniques

. . . and then there's coming down the steep. This is perfectly possible on a mountain bike, but a lot more comfortable (if only in the mind) with the Cleland layout.

Those stones, after years of up and down by Farmers' Land Rovers, are completely slick. There's not much grip to be had on the rock, but you can get something in between them; you have to slide from gap to gap.

Thrilling!

Anyone else been down Starbotton Road?

I won't be doing it again (unless paid considerable amounts of moolah)

(1986 I think . . . no, on second thoughts it must've been 1983)

 

[swizz69]

. . . and then there's coming down the steep. This is perfectly possible on a mountain bike, but a lot more comfortable (if only in the mind) with the Cleland layout.

I once shot down a rocky path near Macc Forest (without any suspension) and can still feel biceps slapping against humerus's (humerii? no idea ). My arms felt weird for a good half hour afterwards :twisted:

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

Cleland riding techniques

This is a great way of carrying extra baggage when travelling off-road.
The geometry means that the trailing bike follows in the tracks of the front bike and it permits 90 degree cornering. Difficult bendy and undulating terrain can be tackled without problems. Whe riding, you can always be sure that if the front bike fits through a gap, the trailing bike will as well.

With other layouts I've tried, the trailing bikes swing wildly from side to side like the trailers of articulated HGVs.

No, I didn't pinch the idea from Jack Taylor. I arrived at it independently.

:idea: Honest. :idea:

Advantages:
trailing bike follows in the path of tow-bike

child has less effect on tow-bike steering and ballance than high hitch designs

stable 90 degree cornering and short total length

Disadvantages:
front wheel of tow bike will try to lift when climbing in low gears

makes children think that simply rotating their legs is the same as pedalling

 

[swizz69]

Looks like a tidy idea Graham.

No, I didn't pinch the idea from Jack Taylor. I arrived at it independently.

We have a BMX style tagalong which hitches on the seatpost - ickle miss eldest daughter has now outgrown it and I never felt too confident towing (i.e: the handling was atrotious). It unweighted the front of my bike too much, so under braking on slippery surfaces it could be dangerous in fact. The other prob with it was the freeplay in the hitch - Emm would lean over to one side occasionally to see past me in front - once the freeplay had been taken up she was literally pulling the bike over, so after a few heartstopping moments we avioded roads altogether, just going on decent bike trails at low speed.

The Islabike alternative looks far safer being pivoted directly above the back wheel & as such having less effect on the steering.

Oh no, now we've gone off 'off thread'

 

[ededwards]

Very short write up with photos of yesterday's very enjoyable Wendover Bash here http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 378#313378 hopefully some of the other guys who were there can add more

 

[GeoffApps]

Cleland Aerotuck

Reference back to the aerotuck I mentioned a few posts back, and you'll also see why I prefer wellies on my regular circuit; watch this vid
http://www.vimeo.com/2679372
There are rocks under the surface!

 

[toons]

some race events if anyone remembers

Boltby Bash?? - that was a mainly forest thrash with some very very fast gravel roads

anyone remember Jez avery? the one wheel wonder with his swiss flop or summink?? lol - was a magician on a bike..

WOW what a thread, thanks guys, really enjoying the history lesson\info.

I'll scan my photos of Bolty Bash. Me and Drewson went; we got my parents to drive us down, camped for the weekend and Drew's parents picked us up. All i remember is the Mud!!

Jez Avery was the mechanic in our LBS, before he got sponsored and started appearing in all the mags. We used to hang out there every Saturday; just watching his tricks was amazing.

It was called a Switzerland squeaker. I had my bike in the shop, after he fixed it; he did the Switzerland squeaker on it, I just thought, he's gonna snap my forks!!

 

[mrkawasaki]

.

Incidentally - the Jack Taylor featured initially seems to have now been sold (or at least removed from the website) - wonder where it will turn up?? Perhaps Retrobike should claim some commission...

Mr K

 

[GrahamJohnWallace]

This is an excerpt from the 'History of the RSF' written by their chairman.

...."many RSF members have little or no interest in the technical side of cycling. They would be unable to tell you the make of components on their bikes. Indeed for many years Archie Woodward the
RSJ editor (1969 to 1991) would refuse to publish any thing on equipment saying it was outside the scope of the magazine".
Little wonder that innovations, like the bikes of Jack Taylor or Geoff Apps, were not embraced by the RSF membership.

For interest here's some info on the relationship between Geoff Apps and the RSF. Geoff thought that in the RSF he would find a ready made market for his Cleland bikes and ideas. In fact they were an extremely conservative organisation who did not welcome new ideas or technology.

Geoff joined the RSF and from 1982 led RSF rides from Wendover. Some members did not like his "seeking out and delighting in riding rough terrain" approach, and stopped attending. Others enjoyed the increased pace and challenge.
Geoff's subversive approach was not appreciated by a conservative RSF leadership and his Cleland designs were not enthusiasticaly recieved.

It's ironic to hear from the RSF chairman, that today: ....."within the RSF about half are on mountain bikes the rest riding traditional touring machines". (The modern pictures on the RSF website however, show a sizeabe majority of mountain bikes).

One other question is...
Did the Taylor brothers design the 79 bike or were they initialy commisioned to make these bikes to somebody else's design. In the same way that Geoff Apps commisioned Dee's Cycles, Bill Witcombe, and Jeremy Torr to make his early Cleland framesets? The fact that the Taylors designed it themselves would imply that they also rode off-road and so understood the issues!