purplewicked
Retro Guru
the 93 Klein catalogue exudes class w/ outstanding photography...
those guys sure knew how to wrap their product w/ fine art.
those guys sure knew how to wrap their product w/ fine art.
It's another Klein debate...!
- Thread starter mrkawasaki
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mrkawasaki
Retrobike Rider
Wold Ranger
Old School Grand Master
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Klein
Jump a log, smash your fragile coke can Aluminium frame and I won't so much as think about honouring the non existent warranty Mmmm, he's even telling you to buy his bikes then break them- Lordy! That is clever marketing indeed!
Jump a log, smash your fragile coke can Aluminium frame and I won't so much as think about honouring the non existent warranty Mmmm, he's even telling you to buy his bikes then break them- Lordy! That is clever marketing indeed!
utahdog2003
Senior Retro Guru
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Re: Coke Cans
I'd agree with that, except the 'conned' part. Best thing Gary Klein did, for Gary anyway, was sell Klein at a time when lightwight ruled the day and suspension was the exception. I doubt Gary Klein could have adapted his ideas to accomodate the perception of what a modern mountain bike needed to be had he not sold when he did. 5 inch travel Kleins only came around because Trek felt they needed to, and even then they weren't true Kleins, and at that price-point, and after the Trek sale...the public was watching.
I've always maintained that what killed Klein was the post Trek sale, desire-factor reduction within in-the-know cyclist groups, and the success of a Lance Armstrong buoyed Trek brand among the newbs to the sport. Cyclists knew Kleins were just Treks, and you could do pretty well just buying the Trek brand, and folks who had no clue just assumed that if it was good enough for Lance, well... Result, Trek flew high and Klein withered on the vine.
Either way...Don't blame Gary Klein for Trek's lack of vision for any of the brands that they purchased in the 90's...as they're all in the shitter at this point. :cry:
This is a much better discussion of the 'why Klein' thing than is typically the norm...
Wold Ranger":yz60ikc2 said:
I'd agree with that, except the 'conned' part. Best thing Gary Klein did, for Gary anyway, was sell Klein at a time when lightwight ruled the day and suspension was the exception. I doubt Gary Klein could have adapted his ideas to accomodate the perception of what a modern mountain bike needed to be had he not sold when he did. 5 inch travel Kleins only came around because Trek felt they needed to, and even then they weren't true Kleins, and at that price-point, and after the Trek sale...the public was watching.
I've always maintained that what killed Klein was the post Trek sale, desire-factor reduction within in-the-know cyclist groups, and the success of a Lance Armstrong buoyed Trek brand among the newbs to the sport. Cyclists knew Kleins were just Treks, and you could do pretty well just buying the Trek brand, and folks who had no clue just assumed that if it was good enough for Lance, well... Result, Trek flew high and Klein withered on the vine.
Either way...Don't blame Gary Klein for Trek's lack of vision for any of the brands that they purchased in the 90's...as they're all in the shitter at this point. :cry:
This is a much better discussion of the 'why Klein' thing than is typically the norm...
Raymond_mole
Retro Guru
I was 15 when klein launched the Attitude, I can see it now.
Hanging from a set of scales with all the components my old Raleigh had on it but way lighter.
From that day i lusted after one but could never afford it.
I did manage to get a Pace RC100 as my race bike and never looked back at a Klein again. When i saw one out on the trails i would think the Pace was far superior and far more ahead of its time.
I never doubted the comfort and ride of the pace.
Until i managed to get an Attitude. (Just to have the best of british and the best the US could offer).
I have to say. I love it . The ride, the looks and the feel of it are awesome.
My heart and head belong to Pace, but the hills belong to Klein. http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61171
Hanging from a set of scales with all the components my old Raleigh had on it but way lighter.
From that day i lusted after one but could never afford it.
I did manage to get a Pace RC100 as my race bike and never looked back at a Klein again. When i saw one out on the trails i would think the Pace was far superior and far more ahead of its time.
I never doubted the comfort and ride of the pace.
Until i managed to get an Attitude. (Just to have the best of british and the best the US could offer).
I have to say. I love it . The ride, the looks and the feel of it are awesome.
My heart and head belong to Pace, but the hills belong to Klein. http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61171
Wold Ranger
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Klein
They sure had some novel ideas, internal cable routing and machined out welds, press fit BB, rear facing drop outs, internal oversized headsets, super custom paint, but having owned and broken both Klein and Trek versions, with warranties not honoured, I question the high prices for a not particularly well made frame. Most of the innovation was again clever marketing by just being different and served no practical purpose. I really don't have much affection for them and if oversized Aluminium was so great, why is quality steel making such a comeback and selling so well? I really think they were a poor quality article, sold well.
They sure had some novel ideas, internal cable routing and machined out welds, press fit BB, rear facing drop outs, internal oversized headsets, super custom paint, but having owned and broken both Klein and Trek versions, with warranties not honoured, I question the high prices for a not particularly well made frame. Most of the innovation was again clever marketing by just being different and served no practical purpose. I really don't have much affection for them and if oversized Aluminium was so great, why is quality steel making such a comeback and selling so well? I really think they were a poor quality article, sold well.
immaterialities
i really agree with the previous comments
...the most impressive thing for me about Kleins was Dave Hemming riding to a silver (or bronze) in the ?91 World Champs DH on a rigid Klein Attitude...
also I remember there was a great review in a early MBUK original Adroit versus a proto e-saty Chas Roberts with Campag...style and imagery aplenty there.
i really agree with the previous comments
...the most impressive thing for me about Kleins was Dave Hemming riding to a silver (or bronze) in the ?91 World Champs DH on a rigid Klein Attitude...
also I remember there was a great review in a early MBUK original Adroit versus a proto e-saty Chas Roberts with Campag...style and imagery aplenty there.
mrkawasaki
Retrobike Rider
Up the anti!
Hey this is 'Retrobike'!
Just to show it's not a forgone conclusion in my head, here's some Klein promotion I'm down with...
BTW, what's the story behind the name shortening??
Mr K
utahdog2003":31m1hwfc said:This is a much better discussion of the 'why Klein' thing than is typically the norm...
Hey this is 'Retrobike'!
Just to show it's not a forgone conclusion in my head, here's some Klein promotion I'm down with...
BTW, what's the story behind the name shortening??
Mr K
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Klein
Interestng topic this one. I don't own a Klein but I would certainly take up the opportunity if it come along (theres bugger all here in OZ and freight from the US is horrific for anthing bigger than a fork)
I personally can't see any reason to hate Klein - bike or man. OK so a few broke, big deal take an F1 car and drive it everyday and I'm sure you'll come across some sort of fatigue issue sooner or later. Cutting edge stuff is often just that - on the edge. If you want complete relaibility buy a 40 pound steel single speed. If you want to go faster use lighter weight materials, if you want the fastest bike use the least material you can but the question is how much is that and how long do you want it to last?
I admire those individuals who had the balls to do something different, and in fact made a difference. Kelly, Ritchey and Fisher are some early examples, Klein, Bradbury, Turner (of Rockshox), Bontrager are some of the next batch who made improvements to the inventions of Kelly et al.
Its what makes the period so rich in history and so enjoyable to remember.
If mountain bikes were pioneered like motocross bikes there would be half a dozen to choose from, and all much the same. And modern rear suspension would be almost identical.
Its like the old saying if you haven't crashed you haven't tried hard enough.
Kleins , Mountain Goats and Fats are surely some of the best looking bikes to have ever been made. I don't care that wealthy people have Kleins to ride on the bike path, thats their issue. Is Klein the most broadcasted bike on TV? Remember the green one in Seinfelds place!!!!!!!
I say appreciate them all for their respective roles in MTB development good or bad. Ugly or Pretty. But don't judge a bike by its rider!!!!
Interestng topic this one. I don't own a Klein but I would certainly take up the opportunity if it come along (theres bugger all here in OZ and freight from the US is horrific for anthing bigger than a fork)
I personally can't see any reason to hate Klein - bike or man. OK so a few broke, big deal take an F1 car and drive it everyday and I'm sure you'll come across some sort of fatigue issue sooner or later. Cutting edge stuff is often just that - on the edge. If you want complete relaibility buy a 40 pound steel single speed. If you want to go faster use lighter weight materials, if you want the fastest bike use the least material you can but the question is how much is that and how long do you want it to last?
I admire those individuals who had the balls to do something different, and in fact made a difference. Kelly, Ritchey and Fisher are some early examples, Klein, Bradbury, Turner (of Rockshox), Bontrager are some of the next batch who made improvements to the inventions of Kelly et al.
Its what makes the period so rich in history and so enjoyable to remember.
If mountain bikes were pioneered like motocross bikes there would be half a dozen to choose from, and all much the same. And modern rear suspension would be almost identical.
Its like the old saying if you haven't crashed you haven't tried hard enough.
Kleins , Mountain Goats and Fats are surely some of the best looking bikes to have ever been made. I don't care that wealthy people have Kleins to ride on the bike path, thats their issue. Is Klein the most broadcasted bike on TV? Remember the green one in Seinfelds place!!!!!!!
I say appreciate them all for their respective roles in MTB development good or bad. Ugly or Pretty. But don't judge a bike by its rider!!!!
Inigo Montoya
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Re: Klein
well said...sworksm2":1x3pmu4e said:
