Is this a Carlton? - please help identify

[YoAchim]

Hello

At first, I'm german and my english isn't as well as it could be, but I'll try my best. Please excuse the mistakes.
A few days ago I got this vintage road bike from a lovely neighbor, after abandoning 15-20 years in his basement. He saw my other bikes and decided I should give him a second life on the road.

Now I really would like to know what a frame i got here - badly there are no decals, numbers or letters on it.
In the german road bike forum someone said it could be british, so i searched the last days... I'm not sure, but I figured out that "Carlton" may could be the manufacturer, 'cause the lugs look similar.

So, I guess you british guys know a lot more about british bikes and can kindly help identify my new achievement.
Now pics and lot of thanks in advance.

edit: mostly stripped, cleaned and done better pics. Under the dirt I found some numbers and some sort of logo.

 

[Iwasgoodonce]

Re: unknown bike/frame - please help identify

Hello and welcome to the forum. If you suspect it to be a Carlton, put that name in the title of your thread, (you can edit it) and a very knowledgeable chap with the user name Spokesman will be along with an opinion. He is our resident Carlton guru.

 

[YoAchim]

Re: unknown bike/frame - please help identify

Thanks a lot and a great idea too. Let's attract the Carlton guru.

 

[YoAchim]

Meanwhile I'm pretty sure it's a Carlton, but which model and year?
Would be really nice if someone could help me out with this little hard nut.

I don't know if it's important, but here's the equipment-list:
Handlebar - no name found, aluminium
Stem - no name found, aluminium
Brake arms - SULKY, aluminium/plastic
Headset - didn't build it off yet, no name outside
Brakes - CLB, aluminium
Seat post - SR Laprade, aluminium
Seat - Selle Royal Sprint, rough leather
Bottom bracket - didn't build it off yet
Cranks - Solida, aluminium
Pedals - Kyokuto Pro Vic II, mostly aluminium I guess
Front Derailleur - Shimano 600 Arabesque
Rear Derailleur - Shimano 600 Arabesque
Shifters - Shimano 600 Arabesque
Hubs front/rear - Normandy high flange, aluminium
Quick releases - Maillard, steel
Rims - no name found, aluminium

 

[Midlife]

Hi

Carlton were a member of the Raleigh group and were ruled by men in suits and were generally numbered (so they could bean count).

The numbers you have are the angles of the lug and the lug manufacturer (Bocama I think) . There should be a number under the bottom bracket, rear dropout or underneath the seat pillar on the seat tube facing the rear brake.....

The forks look wrong, for the most part Carlton's were considered upmarket and had a cast fork crown, usually Vagner.

Have a hunt for the frame number

Shaun

 

[YoAchim]

Thank you a lot Shaun

The mysterious thing is, I've looked many times all over the frame, on the places you said too, but no number to find. Clean brush everywhere, no part of a number or anything to divine that could be one.
And yes, the fork is the next strange thing on this bike. In my eyes it looks a bit like Raleigh, but I've only seen pictures and have no clue.
Only the lugs on the frame surely look like these at Carlton-frames... a hard nut, but I begin to fall in love with english frames and, especially, the wide range of beautiful lugs!

The hunter without loot, Clemens

 

[daugs]

The forks look wrong, for the most part Carlton's were considered upmarket and had a cast fork crown, usually Vagner

+1

even the relatively cheap Carlton's still had nice cast forks also no wrap over stays and not sure of age but the earlier Carltons with similar lugs didn't have gear hangers I believe

My initial money would be NOT from my time owning one back in the day and trying to identify one bought couple of years back BUT only to take a view and happy for my padawan naivety to be corrected by Spokesman or other "Jedi".

 

[Robbied196]

I've owned a few Carlton's but I don't remember anything that had indented tops to the seat stays, it would also be strange for a Carlton not to have a frame number somewhere. It maybe worth removing the forks and seeing if there's a number on the tube.

A nice looking bike though, we'll have to see what Spokesman thinks

 

[YoAchim]

Thanks for your opinions, tomorrow I'll remove the forks and have a look if there's a number.

One possibility I can imagine is that back in the days someone changed the forks, but it got the same paint and "pinstriping" like the frame.
Anyhow I got to speak with my neighbor again, if he can remember from where he got this bike. All I know is that he lived in West-Berlin back then.

 

[Spokesmann]

As has been said the forks would be wrong for a Carlton. The head lugs sort of right, they have a bit of the Crespera look (Bocama), but the bottom bracket one looks out of place, similar in design to the old Oscar Egg lugs of the 50s. As Sahun has said Carlton tended to stamp the bottom brack shell as well as put the frame numbers either at the back of the seat tube or rear LHS rear drop out, to find nothing, not even a trace of numbering (possibly filed off?) is curious. One small detail there are no holes for the headbadge, later one did have a foil stick on type though. The lack of braze ons at the side of the top tube for the rear brake cable troubles me too. If I get a chance Ill have a look back through some images... To be blunt the whole thing looks a bit iffy frame wise, perfectly rideable though.