Improving Brakes - Steel rims 1935 Raleigh

[GTR]

Hello all,

I'm sure this has been discussed before - indeed, I have found a few threads on line which have guided me on this very subject, but am after a little further advice if anyone has experience please?
I have inherited a 1935 Raleigh - a Speed Sports I think - it looks very like this with the KS hub: http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/i ... amp;id=727

I have found the brakes have scarily little effect in the wet, and are poor but passable in the dry. Research suggested steel rims are poor, and that the salmon brake pads or Fibrax Rain Cheaters with leather inserts were the best upgrade.

I have just fitted the latter Fibrax option and to be honest a test ride has shown no appreciable difference. Should I go salmon? do they bed in? I have to admit I don't have any knowledge around how to adjust brakes optimally and the non original drops have very spongy brake levers.

Would it help to source some original style bars & upgraded levers or do they just need adjusting by someone who knows what they're doing?

I know the best option is to swap the steels for modern rims, but that would seem a shame - how did they manage in the old days I wonder!

Any advice greatly received. :xmas-big-grin:

History if interested:
This was bought new by my Grandfather in Glasgow, who then moved south & rode it to work from Sidcup to Bermondsey each day (and allegedly got blown off it by bombs during the war - both surviving unscathed). My Dad who is knocking on the door of 82 inherited it but cannot balance well since a stroke, so I now have it as a daily ride and would like to keep it as original as possible.

 

[keithglos]

Re: Improving Brakes - Steel rims 1936 Raleigh

We used to stop back in the 40s. Sometimes.
If the outer cables are compressing then replace. It is not difficult to solder a cable, the hardest part for most is cutting the cable. If the cables are OK then lubricate by running a little oil down the inners.

Make sure the brake blocks toe in a little to the trailing edges by bending the brake arms.
We also used a smear of light oil on the rim, this would combine with the brake block in the dry only.

Learn how to put one foot on the road and swing the bike round?

Also (without mudguards) a foot behind the fork crown.

You have a very rare bike there.

Keith

 

[GTR]

Re:

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the reply it made me chuckle, and I'll have a look at those options, although smearing oil on the rim seems counter intuitive & I'm not sure how that would affect the leather inserts on the blocks - I'm tending to think it can't get any worse though! The front mudguard is staying on I'm afraid

I thought being in my 6th decade of cycling I'd be the oldest here, but I doff my cap to you. It is a nice old thing, well made. After seeing the sheer number of these Raleighs & their variants in videos like this, I can't help wonder why so few seem to have survived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPkT0paGEnQ

All the best,
Rob.

 

[keithglos]

Re: Improving Brakes - Steel rims 1936 Raleigh

Hi Rob,
A smear of oil works with old type brake blocks, the oil combines with rubbery stuff in the blocks and leaves a layer on the rim. Does sometimes get a bit noisy.

Very few top end bikes from the large makers were ever sold, I rode a 531 BSA Opperman from 1939 in my first time trial. I was a retailer and repairer in the 50s/60s and have never seen a top end Raleigh or Hercules from 36 - 39.
I had a BSA Gold Column in 1949. For club /time trialists there was always a tendency for the big makers to be behind the game, and mostly supported small builders.

Keith

 

[Craigmount]

Re: Improving Brakes - Steel rims 1936 Raleigh

Hi Rob I liked the bike history, very interesting I bet there's a lot more, and also the YouTube 1965 CTC day out to Rugby. So what happened to our quiet country roads.....?

Re the brakes I had the same problem on my 1954 Raleigh, particularly the rear which was ineffectual.
The outer rear cable was okay, so I cut off the rear soldered end and removed the inner cable completely from the outer cable. That gave me the opportunity to properly clear out and lubricate the outer cable with 3-in-one, also working the inner cable back and forth, with plenty oil.
You now have a choice:
1) either replace the inner cable with a new one. The old cables were probably over-engineered, since the new one will likely be thinner and will slide through with less friction.
2) in my case I had sufficient cable length (on the 21" frame), so I cut off about 1 inch of the outer cable - this gave me enough to feed through the original inner cable and re-solder on another end.

RESULT: the rear brake improved but not by that much. On these bikes the brakes work up to a point however you learn to anticipate other road users, and brake well in advance, always using both levers!!
Good luck going forward, and stopping....
Neil.

 

[Woz]

Re: Improving Brakes - Steel rims 1936 Raleigh

Oh lord. My first proper road bike had steel rims. You had to "dry" the rims before you actually wanted
to slow down. If you wanted to stop, then you had to hang on for dear life towards whatever you were heading
into.

Going over the rim with rough grit sand paper helped. Sure it will make rusty
rims after, but at least you can stop.

Every time I see lovely old vintage touring bikes with steel rims I just cringe and certainly
can't visualise descending a Col with them in the wet.

I would use it for dry weather days and be done with.

 

[greencat]

Re: Improving Brakes - Steel rims 1936 Raleigh

All of my early bikes were steel rimmed and the advice given around scrubbing off speed (and water) early, toeing etc all chimes with my own experiences. There was less traffic even in the 70s and 80s it seemed and we had much lower expectations from our brakes. I'll add some advice around avoiding puddles in the wet.

Later I found a old bike with steel rod brakes when in London. It was my commuter for about six months. It encouraged a zen like riding experience of treating every ride as a chance to slowly meander through the streets while absorbing your surroundings while gesturing to pedestrians to walk in front of you as there was time for them to do so. In wet dark evenings, it was positively terrifying and so I left it outside one night for its next owner.

 

[mattr]

Re: Improving Brakes - Steel rims 1936 Raleigh

It's actually quite amazing the difference a bit of oil can make to rubber if you apply it in the right place, i use it on RC car tyres to improve grip. Which is extremely odd.

Soaks in to the rubber and softens the surface quite a lot, tyres end up grippy enough that you can start to pull the flooring up if it's not 100% fixed down.
After a few months use you end up with an extremely sticky race line.... made up of a mixture of oil and rubber.

 

[GTR]

Re:

Hi Neil,
Thanks very much for the reply and info - I'm picking up little bits of it's history. My Dad remembers it originally had what he referred to as 'half drops' which my Grandfather replaced with straight bars...my Dad then found a discarded set of alloy drops which it now has, but I'd like to source some of the original kind sometime. I need to show my Dad some period pictures and determine what he meant by 'half drops' - could be upside down north road style or just a shallower drop style. Seems to have been quite a choice of handlebar styles even back then!
I've been looking at your Lenton refurb thread and can see you have a great deal of experience - I'm down in Kent but my sisters in Musselburgh, so I'm now wondering how I can get it up to you for a bit of fettling!?
Failing that, could you take your Lenton out for a few spins in the rain this winter and do some brake research for me?

Woz & Greencat - Thanks for your replies - you are confirming what I thought around adapting riding style to compensate for the lack of brakes (fortunately my age and riding style suits the required approach!). My recently expired (chain broke) 15 year old mass produced bike of unknown make had the original brakes an therefore left a lot to be desired anyway, but it was fairly consistent even when wet.
Woz - Until I fix the chain the Raleigh is my only bike, so unfortunately I have to use it in all weathers for the time being!
Greencat - I do have the advantage of using backroads mainly on these dark wet evenings, so I'm still managing at the moment. I've memorised where the potholes are!

mattr - Might take me a while to lay down an effectively sticky racing line on my way to work & back but I get what you're saying. I think I need to do some extra curricular rides to bed them in a bit more & maximise the contact with the rims, probably expecting too much immediately from new blocks.

Thanks for all the replies folks, this seems like a very nice forum of like minded & knowledgeable folks.

 

[GTR]

Re:

A few pics - might post some of the bike as a whole over on the other bit of the forum.

Have just been out as it's a nice day and I'm off work. There are a couple of steep hills nearby which i've gone down a few times to bed them in a bit. Strangely they are feeling better than before - perhaps it's just drier. Certainly after I wheeled through some dewey grass they seemed to lose their effect again, but after a few touches to dry them they were back to good.

There is hope!

(not for the photos though apparently - i'll work on that...)