I'm overweight!! Where are all the Light+Cheap MTBs

[ljamesb]

GOOD MORNING RETROBIKE!!! ahem. Sorry about that, It's a little early still and I just wanted to get that out my system. Woke up today early planning to cycle to the Cotswolds only to find that it's raining :x . What a cruel world.

So anyway, onto everyone's favourite subject, bikes. There are so many to choose from and after days of trying to find something suitable, I'm completely and thoroughly gumtree'd out. I would really appreciate any pointers.

I'm looking for an as light as possible, steel mountain bike up to £100, to convert into a touring bike. By convert, really I just mean mess around putting my pedals, rack, different tyres, tune everything and leave. As far as I'm concerned, there is no more perfect base for a round the world machine than an 80s/90s cro-moly mountain bike .

So far I have been pleasantly surprised with a few bikes out there which can be had for well under £100 and are quite a bit lighter than my current bike (1-2kg lighter). Plus if original, they all seem to have niceish components. Many of which I will definitely use considering the components on my current touring MTB are 100% entry level. So far, I've been looking at the Marin muirwoods, Marin bear valley, Trek 970 and the Specialized rockhopper. I think these are all between 24 and 26 pounds (talking heftiness here as opposed to spendiness).

Haven't had too much luck in finding weights of many other bikes which fall into the under £100 category. Any ideas what else I could look out for? Weight is really important as every gram saved matters. THANKS!

Oh and here's a couple of pictures of two of my bikes. Please excuse the electric nature of one of them, and the folding/non retro/non MTB nature of the other, but maybe some will find them interesting.

Unkown model 90s Claud Butler cro-moly MTB. I painted it green, electrified it with a hub motor and then took it touring around Europe. Top speed with the motor only is 30mph which is fun. Mostly though, I used the motor to just increase my average cycling speed so I could cover more distance in a day. Also comes in handy for pulling your mates up any particularly steep hills with the help of a bungee cord .

16 speed Brompton. Modified it for touring by adding an 8 speed sturmey archer hub gear and double chainrings at the front. If I remember correctly the gear range is something like 20-100" or 500%. Not as good as a rohloff at 526%, but pretty close. About the same weight though, and 1/5th the price.

Closeup of the gear arrangement. Note the chain guide cog on the rear triangle. When you need the mountain gears (the small front chainring), you just manually pull the chain up onto the guide cog and carry on cycling. The chain will then switch over to the 30t front chainring. Doesn't affect the folding.

 

[firedfromthecircus]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Nice bikes. The mods to the Brompton are very nice. Is that your original design or from somewhere else? Also, I see what looks like two chain tensioners. What are they please?

As for your original question, I shall direct you to a famous quote by Mr Bontager.

'Strong, light, cheap. Pick two!'

Although that fits a bit less when dealing with s/h stuff the basics are still true. The nicer gear will still cost you more. The classifieds on here are probably one of the best places to look and you should be able to get something for a 'fair' price. The silly bargains that occasionally pop up on gumtree and eBay are few and far between. That said, you own a Brompton so I know you understand that sometimes you have to pay for decent kit.
I'm sure if you were prepared to up your budget just a little you would be able to find something that suits.
GLWTSearch.

 

[hamster]

I absolutely agree that early 90's steel MTBs are a great starting point for tourers. The huge variety of tyre choice alone from 1" to 2.2" is a massive advantage.

My suggestion is not to go too light on tourers as a high end frame is less stiff due to the exotic thin tubing. While it will be as good for pedalling loads it's the squirm and flex from panniers etc that counts. A Marin Bear Valley is a really good starting point. Marins seem to have the kind of stable geometry that is well suited to loaded riding. I know, I've a Palisades which I have used as a drop bar tourer for 20 years.

Anyway, a kg or so saved on a touring bike is concealed by the extra load so somewhat irrelevant. Buy yourself a down sleeping bag and titanium kettle instead!

 

[datmony]

I would agree totally with Hamster. You can get too light with some them and it will just not last. Great frames I would look for would be Bridgestones, Bianchis, Stumpjumpers, Rockies, etc. That 970 Trek you note would also be nice but they use pretty huge tubes so I don't find the ride compliant. I have never actually ridden one loaded though so it might be a great combo for that.

Biggest thing I would pay attention to would be rack mounts and a nice stable geometry. Something with a fairly level top tube.... decently long rear stays.... high quality rigid fork such as a Ritchey Logic.

 

[ljamesb]

Thanks very much for the warm welcome and the advice . Had been lurking lately and thought it was about time I joined and said hello. There are some truly amazing bikes on here.

Is that your original design or from somewhere else? Also, I see what looks like two chain tensioners. What are they please?

Wish I could take credit for it, but was done with the help of Graham at tiller cycles. He does a lot of cool Brompton related mods. Needed a simple solution to get more gears for a planned hitch-biking trip and that was what we came up with. The tiny cog on the triangle is original as far as I know, but I don't know much so will probably be corrected on that. he he.

The black thing over the rear wheel is a Brompton chain tensioner assembly which is used on the 3 speed version. I think it was designed specifically for the Brompton early in it's life.

'Strong, light, cheap. Pick two!'

Very true!

Looking at things from a Gram-saved to £-spent ratio, £50-100 for about 1.5kg saved (switch to Marin Bear Valley) , plus an upgrade of my current components is amazing. I think the law of diminishing returns will come into play quite quickly as the bikes will either get waaay more expensive, or ride like a frame made from coathangers.

I'm a bit of an 'ultralight backpacker' so most of the stuff I have is light (if you need to know what the lightest pair of boxers is, I'm your guy). I often find that the lighter stuff is also the cheapest due to enthusiastic over-engineering on the part of backpacking companies.

I guess I'm wondering if there any bikes out there which are magic exceptions to the pick two rule?

 

[ljamesb]

The huge variety of tyre choice alone from 1" to 2.2" is a massive advantage.

Definitely agree with you there. I managed to score some 1.5" folding Schwalbe Marathon Racer tyres for next to nothing recently. 390g for some tough, fast and grippy touring tyres is hard to beat.

I'd love to try those Tannus solid tyres out. If they ride well, you can just lose the pump, tubes, tyre levers, rim tape & tyre levers in one fell swoop.

My suggestion is not to go too light on tourers as a high end frame is less stiff due to the exotic thin tubing. While it will be as good for pedalling loads it's the squirm and flex from panniers etc that counts.

Good point there. Have experienced first hand trying to lug two panniers full of beer on a steel racing bike. Felt like cycling with an elephant on the back.

Ah awesome, I will have to add the Palisades to the list to look out for.

Have you ever tried to fry an egg in a titanium pan? lol

 

[widowmaker]

Re:

I am building a touring type bike using a Univega Racelite frame, very underrated in my opinion.

 

[Radar]

A fair few early 90s manufactureres had a standard frame for their core range of bikes, it was the quality of the components that made the lightness of the top models. Marin for example had a cast iron frame for their entry level models, then a really nice tange frame for Palisades Trail all the way upto Eldridge Grade, top 2 models got a slightly lighter tube set. Not much difference, weightwise, between Eldridge and next up Pine Mountain. I had an Eldridge for years, it was light compared to friends' bikes of similar build quality.

As mentioned weight is pretty secondary when used in conjunction with the word 'touring', I'd be looking at frame quality and comfort first.

 

[hamster]

Have you ever tried to fry an egg in a titanium pan? lol

Titanium cookware is completely hopeless, absolutely agreed! Trangia pots and kettles for me every time.

Marin used the same frame in the early 90s for the Palisades and Bear Valley. However the Bear Valley SE has the same frame as the Eldridge and Pine Mountain.

 

[ljamesb]

Re: Re:

I am building a touring type bike using a Univega Racelite frame, very underrated in my opinion.

Looking at photos of the racelite, the geometry looks like it might work well. WIll have to add it to the list to consider. Thanks!

A fair few early 90s manufactureres had a standard frame for their core range of bikes, it was the quality of the components that made the lightness of the top models. Marin for example had a cast iron frame for their entry level models, then a really nice tange frame for Palisades Trail all the way upto Eldridge Grade, top 2 models got a slightly lighter tube set. Not much difference, weightwise, between Eldridge and next up Pine Mountain. I had an Eldridge for years, it was light compared to friends' bikes of similar build quality.

I appreciate the info re: marin frames. I'd found the weights of all the Marin bikes from a particular year, but was struggling to understand the difference in weights. From the info I've found, I think that the Eldridge and Bear Valley S.E. also came with a lighter fork (double butted). Then the Pine Mountain came with an even lighter fork (triple butted).

I think I may look out for one of the Marin tange frame versions with the nicest components I can find. They are all going to be a step up from my current bike .

The advice regarding comfort/geometry/quality over weight makes perfect sense if you plan to spend a good chunk of a day riding on it. I'm just trying to find the best compromise. If you can get good comfort, but save a few hundred grams, its win-win.

Titanium cookware is completely hopeless, absolutely agreed!

I normally take the tefal 'one egg wonder' (135g) for frying. Makes very good eggs, amazing tiny pancakes and a mean fillet steak (the only steak which will fit in it) lol