Identifying old frame, Hetchins/Claud Butler?

[Logdrop]

Hi,

currently trying to identify this frame. I'm just gathering bits to build it up, and it would be nice to try and find a make/model for it. From what I've found it potentially has Ekla lugs, and the rear dropouts are for an Osgear set up.

The frame number is stamped on both rear dropouts, along with 69 on both frame and steerer tube on the fork. The frame number reads as REGP 845235. Reads 'British Made' and initials LS on bottom bracket. Countless Google searching leads nowhere. Its possible that I'll never find out what it is, but if any wise person out there can help, that would be great.

Cheers in advance, Chris.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, nice frame, just as a first thought, not much time tonight, what about R O Harrison,, it looks forties or a pinch early 50's, so 1954 is a possible for the build. Does it take 26 or 27 wheels, what's the dropout width, a fashion for that pump position did happen in the early fifties. Its a difficult one to sort out. Just trying to keep you moving along. Thanks, Terry

 

[keithglos]

Looks late 30s. Brampton (I think) cast lugs with a lot of work done .

Osgear or Super Champion rear ends, no brazed on gear or tension arm.

Forks look like D to round, and crimped chain stays more often on quantity productions.

Reminds me of Sun (wrong frame number) or Carlton?
Frame number 69, reg number is for osgear ends

Keith

 

[Logdrop]

Re:

Hi,

Thanks for the replies, certainly something to go on. It had 26" wheels on it, I'll measure the spacing tomorrow. I can squeeze a 700c wheel set on it, but the drop out slots aren't big enough to accept the hubs. I can get the hubs into the front section of the rear dropouts though.

So the REGP followed by the number is purely a dropout number, and not a frame number? I didn't think it was so old. It did have a Raleigh light bracket on the front, and was restored by a now defunct bike shop, info here:

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... pratt.html

Thanks again, any more information greatly appreciated.

 

[Midlife]

Is that a clip type headset arrangement with the races held inside the head tubes themselves ? .............looks way before my time


Shaun

 

[Logdrop]

Re:

Yes they are. Seems pretty odd for a frame of such an old age, but I'm not too clued up on bicycles in general. I'm a mechanic by trade, so can happily take them apart, but my knowledge on makes/models etc is lacking. Test me on a Nissan or Renault and I'll happily help!

 

[COUPES]

Re:

Wondering if 69 could be 1946 and 9 September? Seeing as the number is on the fork steer tube. Just an idea though. Nice frame set. R O Harrison a possibility but could be anyone. How did you get it and area could help?

Simon

 

[Jonny69]

Yes, that looks like a headclip type head tube. It's a Russ shaped fork as well, which would also point in that direction. I think it might be a 1930s frame too. A lack of chrome suggests it might be WW2 era (due to a shortage of chromium) so it could be early 40s too.

@Logdrop, if the fork steerer tube protrudes a really long way out the head tube and also has a slot cut into it, it'll be for a headclip type headset. Those rectangular mudguard fitting on the fork are 1930s ones and usually the ones on the rear dropouts would be the same. They may have been changed.

I think you'll have to trawl the builders' section of Classic Lightweights and look for some clues. It's going to be the style of cutting in the lugs (especially around the bottom bracket), the use of the Osgear dropouts and those characteristic spearpoints at the tops of the seat stays.

Sun were already using a braced bottom bracket by that point and none of their factory-produced bikes had fancy cut lugs. It was only Sun bikes under the Parkes brand that had them but it doesn't look like my Parkes. I think you can rule out Sun.

 

[Logdrop]

Re:

Thanks again people. I've identified the dropouts as Stallard, only going from this page, which shows drawings of them, and you can just make out REGP on them:

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/stallard.html

Unfortunately the frame numbers dont match up with a P T Stallard frame.

The bike belonged to my Uncles father. Unfortunately I don't know if he was the original owner. He did have it refurbished by Frederick H Pratt, which has now closed.

 

[keithglos]

The head bearings would be loose case hardened rings taking 1/8 balls in shear, same as millions of roadster bikes used, (not Raleigh). Head clip was fairly standard late 30s, and was continued post war probably while stocks lasted.

The seat stay top eyes probably came with the lug set. Could do with a look at the fork crown, d to round was still being used on decent bikes late 30s, but oval round was preferred.

Is this possibly an early Percy Stallard? I can't find a pre war one to compare.

Keith