Hurlow, Holdsworth or Mal Rees?

[Sprint Finish Andy]

Hi everyone,

Is anyone able to help me identify the builder of my frame?

I've done some research that leads me to believe that it has lugs made by Bill Hurlow. I'm no expert, so I could be wrong. Nevertheless, this doesn't help me determine whether it was badged as a Holdsworth or Mal Rees. Bill seems to have worked for a few workshops.

Peeling paintwork suggests that the frame has been (poorly) resprayed in red over its original green. There is a frame number 6188, plus another long number under the Nervex BB stamp. This number is: 6106400222E38 (note - the small numbers are superscript, not subscript).

I've enjoyed riding it for many years. It's done pretty much all the Alpine climbs many, many times. So, I'm hoping to return the love with a new coat of paint. So, any help would be gratefully received to restore it to its former glory.

Many thanks,
Andy.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, it has Bill Hurlow written all over it, it looks like a 1961 Condor Superbe, Condor will confirm, but serial number and lugs look to be, an example can be found here http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bi ... ey-rb.html. Very nice, show it once done. Terry

 

[Jamiedyer]

I can't help with the branding but certainly it is one special frame, oozes quality
It already looks great but it will look pretty special with a fresh coat of paint and showing off that lug work.
Will follow with interest

Jamie

 

[sdp2112]

Re:

Certainly looks like a Superbe, and the age is right. Sadly the only model missing from my collection of major Hurlows, so if it ever goes on sale please let me know.

 

[Sprint Finish Andy]

Thanks for your help, everyone.

I haven't confirmed with Condor yet but it was clear from the links you provided that it was indeed a Condor Superbe.

I took it to Argos in Bristol and they have done some fabulous work. They gave some really good advice too. Here are some photos. The original photos didn't show just how much work was necessary. It's an amazing transformation.

I was hoping to chrome the lugs. But, Argos pointed that the lugs had been carefully filed down towards the points. So, the initial cleaning process necessary for chroming would have removed too much of the remaining detail. I always felt that I had appreciated what was under the red paint, but hadn't realised just how much attention to detail had been paid in its construction.

I now have to source some suitable equipment including a 120mm rear hub (I decided not to have the spacing modified). Until now, I've ridden it with a cassette hub and random modern equipment. In fact, it's been my hack bike for about twenty years, taking in most of the alpine climbs many times over in harsh weather. I'll still ride it. But, it's now time to take more care of it.

I'll provide another update when it's built up.

 

[hamster]

Ooooooh that's gorgeous! Well done you for a top restoration job.

 

[Mike-p]

Fantastic! I want to respray my flying gate green with gold when the time comes. Dare I ask what the respray cost?

 

[Sprint Finish Andy]

It depends on precisely what you want. I had quite a lot of work done and that may not reflect your needs.

Take a look at Argos prices here: https://argoscycles.com/resprays-refurb/price-lists/

I looked at a number of different frame builders/renovators and there was very little difference between them in terms of cost.

There are two comments that I would add.

Firstly, I had intended to send the frame for respray by courier, and this would have been a mistake. I decided to travel to Argos and the consultancy was excellent: well beyond what I had expected. I had already done a lot of research and thought I knew everything there was to know about what I wanted. But, the guys there have done this umpteen times before so they know what concerns and issues to highlight. In my case: risks associated with chroming were pointed out; choices around the rear axle spacing highlighted; compatibility of the existing braze ons with front mechs discussed; headset diameter options considered; and also the fact that I had also selected Condor transfers that weren't period (and too big). I don't have much experience of builders elsewhere so it would be wrong of me to overly promote one company. But, if you're going to renovate something that matters to you, it makes sense to get it right first time. Take the time to travel to a company with experience of your type of frame. It will add to the experience and you may learn more.

Secondly, consider ALL the work that you require. If we take the "paint job" that I had done as an example, this included:
(1) the primary colour;
(2) I wanted the primary colour to be a 'flamboyant', which looks fabulous in real life. This was an additional expense. Because I travelled to the frame builder, I was also able to see example tubes that had been sprayed in different colours. The ability to see how colours act on tubes and in the light should not be underestimated. Your monitor/phone doesn't show how palette colours look in real life on a real frame;
(3) contrasting panel on the seat and head tube;
(4) lug lining;
(5) fitting of transfers. It may be slightly cheaper if you source the transfers yourself. (It is more expensive if you buy the wrong transfers, and require the frame builder to source an additional set - as I did);
(6) chroming, if desired;
(7) fitting of the head badge.

So, it wasn't cheap. But of all my bikes, I do think my girlfriend actually recognised the beauty in the workmanship of the frame and the perfection of the finish.

For me, I also required some frame repairs and additional braze ons. So all in all, it was an expensive project. But, I'm over the moon. Modern frames can't compare. And if you want something similar, built to order from one of the select frame builders who will produce a frame of beauty, then the prices are out of my league.

One of my friends used to ride a black flying gate, back in the day. I think that a green and gold respray would have looked unbelievable. It'll be worth it. Keep saving up.

 

[averagebiker]

Wow, just wow! That is lovely