How to assess frame quality?

[Vanquish64]

I have acquired a frame that has no markings at all.

I'm not sure what make it is or even what the frame is made from (531 etc).

Is there a rule of thumb for frame and fork weights? I don't know whether I have some painted gas pipes or a decent frame.

 

[oonaff]

Re:

hi. i know a couple of good signs,frame and fork about the 4 or 5 lb mark and seat post diameter 27.2
or even 26.8 are favourable clues to quality.
best thing to do is send some photo's in with close ups of the drop outs /lugs/bottom bracket underside[might be a serial number] and one of the whole frame.and fork.

 

[David B]

Re:

Rear drop-outs are a good clue, better quality frames will generally have forged rather than pressed metal ones (often with the brand stamped into it e.g. Campagnolo, Everest, Gipiemme; Raleigh used ones with their own name engraved on), if of the horizontal type they'll almost certainly incorporate an adjuster screw.

Check the underneath of the bottom bracket shell too - high-quality cast shells often incorporate gear cable guides.

Top-end road racing frames may well have a dead giveaway in the shape of a brazed-on eyelet to take a race number on the underside of the top tube.

For touring bikes, it's often the case that the more braze-ons there are, the better the frame - look out for "low rider" bosses on the forks to take a front rack, holders for spare spokes on the non-drive chainstay (a really neat touch aimed at the serious long-distance tourist), bosses on the underside of the down tube for a 3rd water bottle, etc.

David

 

[roadking]

Re:

Whilst I agree with some of the points on this thread I'll add that it not just down to the tubeset, lugs or dropouts - and some extremely high quality 1950s frames would not have Campagnolo dropouts, but will have high quality tubesets and lugs.

What ultimately determines high quality is how the frame has been built, look particularly at the lugs and their shorelines.

Some people perhaps would not recognise this level of quality, or only recognise it because of a consensus or that a framemaker is fashionable (many are and aren't that good). Don't get taken in by fancy lugwork either, many old timers regard fancy lugwork as mere"gingerbread", Hetchins are a good example and aren't that highly rated by many.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I do recognise real quality when I see it.

Rk.

 

[David B]

Re:

There's also the "ping test" for high-quality thin-walled tubing. The pitfall there is that there's no guarantee that the builder has turned said high quality tubing into a high quality frame.

David

 

[Vanquish64]

The frame is lugless.

Not sure whether brackets are cast or stamped. Will post a picture.

Braze ons are:
Fork eyelets for mudguards
Gear bosses on downtube
Cable stops on top tube
Cable stop on chain stay
Chain carrier on seat stay.

There is a number imprinted on BB but no luck googling it.
YF02I14511

Headset is 22.2 diameter(it says it on headset)
Seat tube is about 26mm (measuring)

Thanks for help. Not after a full history of frame just trying to see whether it's worth building it up...

 

[Vanquish64]

Weight is 7lbs for frame and forks (based on my weight with and without it in my hands)

Maybe it is some nicely painted plumbers pipes!

 

[Vanquish64]

Photos attached below.
Thanks
Will

 

[David B]

The frame is lugless.

Not sure whether brackets are cast or stamped. Will post a picture.

Braze ons are:
Fork eyelets for mudguards
Gear bosses on downtube
Cable stops on top tube
Cable stop on chain stay
Chain carrier on seat stay.

There is a number imprinted on BB but no luck googling it.
YF02I14511

Headset is 22.2 diameter(it says it on headset)
Seat tube is about 26mm (measuring)

Thanks for help. Not after a full history of frame just trying to see whether it's worth building it up...

Chain hanger on the seat stay....I missed that off my list! Only a little detail and not everyone even bothers to use it, but it's a sign that the builder/designer has paid a bit of care and attention.

Straight-bladed fork, if the original, could point to a mid-late 90s frame when such things were pretty fashionable (possibly in the wake of Colnago using them?). Combined with eyes for guards, maybe a lower-end Peugeot or perhaps a Dawes or Raleigh from the time after both firms had farmed out framebuilding elsewhere (YF.... doesn't suggest a Nottingham frame number if it is a Raleigh)? The rear dropouts look decent enough, by the way. Peculiar seatpost diameter may also point to a Peugeot, some of their 90s steel frames - especially ones with the little-known Reynolds 553 cromoly tubing - were very obscure indeed in that regard.

David

 

[Barchettaman]

Looks like it's in really good condition and should build up into a nice little rider, regardless of the tubeset used.

Remember it is impossible to tell the difference between different tubesets, it's all down to the skill of the framebuilder.

The straight bladed fork says a Colnago decal kit from e bay should be on your shopping list

(ducks for cover)