How long before she goes?

[Harryburgundy]

Re:

Well there you go, I don't agree with you and I very much doubt any of the residents of north Kensington do either - even most political commentators are at odds with your opinion.
PS I don't like to use the analogy of corporate business and government, their roles are quite different, but in this case it fits. TM is the figurehead of this government, and she has to take the flack, inasmuch as the CEO of for example an oil exploration company would take the flack if they spilled oil in an environmentally sensitive area. The fact that she is inadequate as, well, a human being, is simply adding grist to the mill.

 

[ajm]

Re: Re:

Sorry, I missed this bit;

You're not disgusted that 100's have needlessly died because a few quid was saved on the 'renovation' of the flat.

The tragedy is bad enough without this kind of hyperbole - let's just stick to the facts, upsetting as they are. "Hundreds" suggests at least two hundred deaths - the current total is around 60 and not expected to rise very significantly at this stage; you shouldn't take your news from "celebrities" like Lily Allen.

Jeremy Corbyn is not keen on facts of course, he'd rather keep on portraying himself as some kind of superman who can right all these wrongs perpetrated by the current PM (who is now basically being accused of deliberately burning likely Labour voters in their homes) and provide free handouts to everyone.

 

[Harryburgundy]

Re:

The likely number of residents in the block - up to 600 people.
Where are they?

 

[ajm]

Re: Re:

PS I don't like to use the analogy of corporate business and government, their roles are quite different, but in this case it fits. TM is the figurehead of this government, and she has to take the flack, inasmuch as the CEO of for example an oil exploration company would take the flack if they spilled oil

To an extent, I agree - theoretically figureheads should take the flack (but in fact rarely do so, whether in government or in business.)

In this case though, nobody has demonstrated that the government are responsible for this tragedy so why should the PM step down?

As to the Labour legislation you referred to in a previous post, as I understand it legislation is already in place which makes local authorities responsible for ensuring the safety of rented property. I happen to agree that landlords really ought to be more fully responsible but as far as I can see the actual level of safety mandated is no different than it would have been had Labour's legislation been enacted. Particularly as in this case, it seems the landlord was the local council anyway!

 

[ajm]

Re: Re:

The likely number of residents in the block - up to 600 people.
Where are they?

I am no expert on tower blocks (the very sight of them has always sent a shudder down my spine) but I have read that up to 400 people were officially reported missing, and 342 people now confirmed as alive.

I hope I'm not wrong, but either way we should stick to known facts wherever possible.

 

[Harryburgundy]

Re:

I hope that figure of 350 is correct - I haven't seen that reported.

 

[technodup]

Re: Re:

Really?But you're not disgusted by cuts to our fire services.

Give it a rest ffs, the Fire Service were on the scene on 6 minutes. What have the cuts been? 20%? Would 20% more engines or men make a difference here? Not likely.

His nasty communism is showing as clearly as you could wish for too - "steal (sorry, "requisition") houses from other people and give them to my voters."

Incredible that's the first thing he thinks of, not to mention it's illegal. And somewhat ironic given he's very fond of human rights when it suits, it's the Human Rights Act which he'd be breaking by requisitioning property. Essentially by saying the human rights of one group (the victims) are more important than another's (the 'rich' property owners) What a opportunistic, naive and stupid tosser.

This is what happens when you let Corbyn types in https://www.ft.com/content/f073edd2-4c7 ... 14ce4af89b Remember he was praising Venezuela at numerous speaking gigs until very recently. Proof that another way was possible, showing the world that socialism works yadda yadda. Gone quiet now though. Presumably not the right type of socialism...

And as for blame, it's clearly too early (although not for some). I'm not sure the comparison with industry is right, I'm fairly certain a new CEO doesn't take the fall for the misdemeanours of his predecessor, especially in the case of corporate manslaughter or suchlike. May is not responsible for this tragedy, that's quite certain.

She is responsible for her pretty abject handling of it so far though. Nothing new there.

 

[Bats]

Re: Re:

The tragedy is bad enough without this kind of hyperbole - let's just stick to the facts, upsetting as they are. "Hundreds" suggests at least two hundred deaths - the current total is around 60 and not expected to rise very significantly at this stage; you shouldn't take your news from "celebrities" like Lily Allen.

Everything is alright everyone, it was only sixty.

 

[ajm]

Re: Re:

The tragedy is bad enough without this kind of hyperbole - let's just stick to the facts, upsetting as they are.

Everything is alright everyone, it was only sixty.

Pertinent parts of the quote highlighted for the benefit of the deliberately obtuse.

 

[Bats]

Re: Re:

Agree with ajm on this.The fact that Corbyns lot are making politics out of the fire is sickening.Am starting to think there is nowhere too low for this lot to stoop to.Ranting with tories out banners amongst people who have lost loved ones to this fire is the vilest thing I have seen in a long while. Disgusting.

It's beyond the pale to point to those who are angry about this fire and accuse them of "politicising" it.

It's social housing, that's political.

As part of the government's 1980s-to-present fetish for putting everything in the "free market", the tower block was put under the control of a corporation called the Kensington and Chelsea tenant management organisation. That's a political act, driven by political ideology.

Said corporation did as they are prone to do - swing in the wind of "the market". This means keeping costs down, i.e cheaping out. That's a consequence of the above political act.

The consequence of the cheaping out is that the building was a deathtrap. That's a material consequence of politics.

At the point where the corporation cheaped out, it was already a political matter. So the residents took political and common sense action - drawing attention to the severe fire safety problem, and predicting that nothing would get done until it was too late.

The corporation's only response was to threaten the residents and demand they close the website where these complaints were listed publicly. That's politics with teeth.

Then the building caught fire, everyone there lost their homes and at least sixty of them died. Because of politics. Every single step. People died because of politics dictating that cost savings are more important than basic fire prevention. They were warned and they simply tried to gag those who warned, so the deaths are political deaths.

And you'd accuse those who tried to stop this deadly politics, who warned about it and were brushed off, who've lost their homes and family to it, you'd accuse them of inserting politics into it as they sift through the rubble? Have a look at yourself.

I mean, my god, they spent tons of money cladding the building so that it'd look pretty and invite more profitable tenants. They spent the money on that instead of putting sprinklers in, which would have been cheaper. Not even £2-per-square-meter extra on making the cladding fireproof was seen as worth it, they specifically asked for the cheaper flammable version that's illegal in most countries. That's capitalist ideology that is, that's "Projected return on investment" in big seventy two foot bold font neon signs.