Holdsworth Frame Numbers

[keithglos]

Holdsworthy made these in the early 70's, they owned the Claud Butler name also, but used it for mid range frames. This was the top model, and also supply to the trade for own transfers.
Keith

 

[Twozaskars]

Lovely, thank you both. Do you know if it would have been sold as a complete bike, or just a frame+fork? I know next to nothing about road bikes so if it was in a catalogue somewhere I’d have some idea of what parts to look for.

 

[keithglos]

Almost all would have been sold as frames. Anyone buying one would either replace existing frame, or purchase new parts over time .
Keith

 

[Twozaskars]

I’d better do some research then, if I decide to rebuild it I’d like to get parts from the correct period. Top model = top parts then I guess. Any idea on the forks? I also googled Barrie Farnsworth but found nothing.

 

[Grahamalexander]

Started new thread on this subject in the hope of identifying more numbers. With a lot of help from Doug (CBguy) on frame identification I have updated the numbering charts seen on the original thread.

A summary of the various numbering systems used by Holdsworth is shown below with more details on Goggle Cloud. This is based on a growing number of frames found on line and information from other websites on the subject. The following are the systems that these numbers seem to fall into.

Pre-War.
Post war 5 Digit numbers and the continuation of this from 1965.
Early 60's 4 Digit numbers (1962-1964).
Shop numbers from 1965 with 1st 2 digits for the year.
Early 70's 4 Digit series (with leading zeros) including branded frames.
6 Digit System from 1976.

The predictions shown are based on the usage of Factory issued numbers and steady production of 1500 frames per year up to 1961 and 1200 frames per year from 1965 when the shop had its own system. 6 Digit numbers have an increasing yearly production up to 1985. The Framework graphs show how this fits around known fixed points in production and frames with good dates or documents to back up their dates.

There are issues with this mainly around shop frames and others that seem to have taken longer to progress through the factory. There are also a few that show up too early, for which I have no real explanation. I have show these on the graphs to indicate the level of accuracy that can be expected with this approach.

All other frames with less clear dating have then been added in where they would occur along with the original description in the Excel sheet. I would be interested in any frame numbers, particularly those with good dates. Hope this is of interest.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... TNKZkN4TmM

Hi I have in my possession a Holdsworth professional built in 1972. The frame was made to spec due to my brothers size.
He was racing for Hemel Hempstead cycle team who were aptly named the likely lads. The club was associated to Holdsworth cycles through Roy Thame. the club raced in the Holdsworth colours, I remember Ian Banbury, Derek Hunt and John Dowling who my brother raced went on to become pro riders. We immigrated to NZ were my brother became successful racing until he passed away at an early age. Roy Thame arranged to have this frame built. The Frame number is 777 with matching number on the steer tube. Other than it was spec built is there any reason for this unique number

 

[markremon]

Hello all

I purchase this bike yesterday, £30 on fb marketplace. I have been trawling through the frame numbers info and catalogues on the very engaging Nkilgarif website but find myself going round in circles trying to determine the age and make/model of the bike. The frame number 11677, located on the non drive side rear dropout. There is also a raised number on the BB shell that is hard to read but maybe 831. The components include Holdsworth Allez pedals, Philippe stem, GB sport hiduminium brake calipers and GB levers, campag grand sport rear mech (4 speed cass), Benelux (cyclo) mk7 front shifter, Brooks B15 or B17 swallow saddle. Front wheel BH defiance hub and Dunlop special lightweight rim. I suspect the rear is a replacement Rigida superchromage on a hub that appears to have a deer logo and the letter OMO? A lot of the components appear to be 1950s.

Seat tube decals seem similar to a 1950s claud butler I’ve seen online. Black with what I assume are world champs bands. There is no headtube badge but the rivet spacing is approximately 66mm.

I’d like to be able to add to the database but I’m currently unable to access the google drive database using my tablet.

Thanks in advance to those of you who may be able to assist.

 

[Twozaskars]

Is there a number on the fork steerer?

 

[markremon]

The only markings on the fork steerer are on the attached photos. There is a small number one and a small number 7. There is also painted letters that appear to spell RHODES. Hope that’s useful

 

[Glug]

I've got no idea what it is, but a few observations

https://www.nkilgariff.com/FrameNosTemp.htmThe easiest way to date a Holdsworth, Claud or Grubb is to start with the frame number. This can give a very good indication of when the frameset was made and sometimes much more. Knowing the year made narrows the field enormously when trying to ID the model. Pre 1957 Claud Butlers can easily be dated to the exact month from the frame number alone. Most pre-war Holdsworth's have the frame number on the seatlug. Post WW2 it is generally under the BB, but some 1950's models are stamped on the rear dropout, drive or non-drive side.

So it could be a 1950s Holdsworth or a Claud

But if it's a Claud then it's a date coded number from 1931 to 1959: 'up to 7 digits' or 'xxx-xxxx'
https://www.nkilgariff.com/Images/Graph.JPGBut from https://www.nkilgariff.com/Images/Holdsworth_Frame_Numbers.JPG
11677 would be approx 1931 (but it should be 6 digits) or 1961.

If it's a Holdsworth number then it would be 1950 (11501-13000) which looks more likely.

BTW. Looks to me like there's an 'A' in front of the serial number

 

[markremon]

Thanks Glug

I’ve started to draw the same Holdsworth conclusion. The A prefix is noted. Thanks for your advice The bike has clearly been loved previously. Covered in a protective oily coating and coming apart easily…so far.