Holdsworth Frame Numbers

[dwscrimshaw]

That number would fit the Holdsworth 4 Digit system, but a bit later than the other frame. It also fits with ~1959 CB frame. That does look more probable for the style of frame and fit with observations made by Doug. I guess it is going to come down to who used Simplex dropouts.

 

[Kman]

Re:

It does seem to be the most logical answer that it is a 59 Claud, that have then be modified at some point with mafac braze on's.

It looks very similar to some Cordon Bleu's, with very close numbers. The only difference being the removal of the square nub on the down tube for the shifters and the addition of all the cable braze on's.

Looks likely that the Brev Simplex drop outs were also in use at the time.

I'm not sure how much closer to its origins I can get!

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Sounds reasonable if you have the evidence for the use of Simplex dropouts.

 

[Peachy!]

Same lugs and fork crown as my 1962 Cordon Bleu, slightly different semi-wrap over at the top of the seat stays, but I think this changed sometime 1960.
Mine has Agrati dropouts, but as these are only first mentioned in the 1961 catalogue, (we don’t have the 1960 yet) I think it’s not unreasonable to assume they could have been different in '59.

I’d say it’s certainly reasonable to assume a 1959 top of the range Cordon Bleu, at least I don't think you’ll find many who would argue differently...

 

[Kman]

Re:

Thank you for that. I guess that's the game really! Search for as much evidence as you can that supports what you think it might be and then wait to be challenged!

All part of the fun!

The only problem I now see is I seem to have a bit a queue forming! 73 Holdsworth, this Claud, a 57 Ephgrave, a 92 Geoffrey Butler and an early number Roberts, not to mention keeping the existing fleet going!

Thank you for your help. I'll keep you updated on progress.

Kristian

 

[torqueless]

Re:

Just to add a little more confirmation, the serial number looks to be stamped up the side of the steerer near the crown race.. non-drive side? That's a Holdsworthy trait.. not universal.

 

[Kman]

Re:

This is good news all round. Other than stripping the paint off and finding transfers, i'm not sure I'm going to get any better confirmation.

 

[Kman]

Re:

See how useful this forum has been for me. (It's been the most productive week!!), I thought I would try my luck with one other frame.

I mentioned previously that I have a Roberts too. This one is damaged, so restoration would be more extensive, but would it be worth it? I've tried looking for the most appropriate thread, but have struggled to find the one. Any thoughts would be good.

Details are;

Approximately mid 70's, possible 75. frame number is 344 as stamped on the rear drop out.





Unfortunately I had a shunt why riding it. (It was my main bike, when I was big enough!). Both the top and down tube are bend. The forks are untouched.




The chrome is tarnished, but ok. I can't see the tubes can be saved, so it would probably need the top and down tube replaced and possible the front end completely. Followed by a re-paint.

I'd appreciate a view on the repairs, but also a point in the right direction.

Also, the last one, (I promise!) is a Geoffrey Butler frame from the early 90's. Is there a suitable forum for discussing its origin too.

 

[torqueless]

Re:

I've tried looking for the most appropriate thread, but have struggled to find the one. Any thoughts would be good.

You should be able to start your own thread in this sub-forum- look for the button that says "new topic".


I've heard of people pulling those front-ended frames straight.. but would you ever trust it again? I wouldn't.
Otherwise, you're probably into a few hundred quid to get the tubes cut out and replaced- and that's before they charge you for the re-spray... so it's a labour of love really. Forget any notion of an economic repair! It looks a nice frame.. Yeah probably not later than about 1975, with those 'long' ends and over the bracket cable guides. Roberts are still going I think so you could ask them? or you might get some info from Roadking..

 

[dwscrimshaw]

So far we do have 3 digit number in the early 70's 4D system, but the custom frames, Harding, DBS, Pollard & Stuart start the other side of 1800. We don't have many so it is possible this is part of that group, but would be early 70's.

I would get the tubes replaced on the frame and use it. I have looked on line for frame repairs myself and there seems to be a set price for the work required that looks fairly constant. Its not going to make commercial scene, but does from a nostalgic point of view.