Holdsworth Frame Numbers
- Thread starter dwscrimshaw
- Start date
dwscrimshaw
Retro Guru
Thanks, doesn't sound like I number I can use. I have a similar issue with forks on my Monsoon. I have a pair to go on that look OK, but probably not 531 and come from a latter CB. Still better than no forks at all!
torqueless
Senior Retro Guru
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torqueless
Senior Retro Guru
Re:
You'll never be sure. You're relatively lucky- at least you can put a 'Holdsworth' on your down tube with a clear conscience. My own '75 mystery frame is another thing entirely. It is either a Shorter, a Stan Pike, a stock shop Holdsworth, or a Ken Ryall built either by Holdsworth, Jack Hearne, or Stan Pike.... or someone else. I no longer care. It is the only frame I've ever really needed. I can't be cavalier with decals, so f*ck 'em.
You'll never be sure. You're relatively lucky- at least you can put a 'Holdsworth' on your down tube with a clear conscience. My own '75 mystery frame is another thing entirely. It is either a Shorter, a Stan Pike, a stock shop Holdsworth, or a Ken Ryall built either by Holdsworth, Jack Hearne, or Stan Pike.... or someone else. I no longer care. It is the only frame I've ever really needed. I can't be cavalier with decals, so f*ck 'em.
Wolber,
Your frame #7331 does resemble a factory Super Mistral, but not quite. http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/bruce ... Holdsworth
7331 does not have the Super Mistral style bushing hidden in rear brake bridge hole but rather a tube projecting externally. The Super Mistral rear brake bridge also had diamond reinforced shoulder fillets which are absent on yours.
What might really cinch frame 7331 as fitting the Italia catalogue description is if you measure the rear triangle. The Italia generally had closer clearances than the Mistral and the distance from centre of BB to centre of rear dropouts was 17 " as opposed to Mistral which was more relaxed and had a 17.5" rear triangle. However I would think if an Italia was built more as a "tourer" rather than racing, conceivably it would have more relaxed measurements.
To make one's own mind up about frame #7331 being a WF Holdworth Shop build one really needs to download Dave Scrimshaw's Excel data and diligently study the details with references of the 50 or shop frames from 1965 to 1975 which includes approximately 8 frame serials deduced to be from outside contractors during the first half of 70's - the period in which your frame lies. As stated previously, these Shop frames appear to all belong to a different numbering system than what was used by Holdsworthy factory.
One can see from the data that during the 70's shop frames did not always have the integral seat post clamps, especially more economical shop builds and often in frames built by outside contractors. Head badge rivets are more difficult to comment on from data as possibly builder dependent and a particular frame could have been repainted at some point, although yours does look like original typical shop seat stay cap lining.
Hope this helps.
See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... TNKZkN4TmM
Doug
Your frame #7331 does resemble a factory Super Mistral, but not quite. http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/bruce ... Holdsworth
7331 does not have the Super Mistral style bushing hidden in rear brake bridge hole but rather a tube projecting externally. The Super Mistral rear brake bridge also had diamond reinforced shoulder fillets which are absent on yours.
What might really cinch frame 7331 as fitting the Italia catalogue description is if you measure the rear triangle. The Italia generally had closer clearances than the Mistral and the distance from centre of BB to centre of rear dropouts was 17 " as opposed to Mistral which was more relaxed and had a 17.5" rear triangle. However I would think if an Italia was built more as a "tourer" rather than racing, conceivably it would have more relaxed measurements.
To make one's own mind up about frame #7331 being a WF Holdworth Shop build one really needs to download Dave Scrimshaw's Excel data and diligently study the details with references of the 50 or shop frames from 1965 to 1975 which includes approximately 8 frame serials deduced to be from outside contractors during the first half of 70's - the period in which your frame lies. As stated previously, these Shop frames appear to all belong to a different numbering system than what was used by Holdsworthy factory.
One can see from the data that during the 70's shop frames did not always have the integral seat post clamps, especially more economical shop builds and often in frames built by outside contractors. Head badge rivets are more difficult to comment on from data as possibly builder dependent and a particular frame could have been repainted at some point, although yours does look like original typical shop seat stay cap lining.
Hope this helps.
See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... TNKZkN4TmM
Doug
Good evening all,
Just acquired this frame set yesterday so looking for some help in identifying it.
It seems to have some similarities to the discussion around wobler's flamboyant green and white frame.
The serial number on the bottom bracket is 74770. It is stamped into the front of the BB just to left of centre on the drive side. The punches are quite fine.
The rear stays are 5/8" at the rear bridge joint and at the bottom of the wrap over.
Unlike wobler's the lugs are pierced.
The brazed fittings are button under down tube, cable guide for rear derallieur and single fitting for rear cable outer, single cable guide on down tube for cable outer to front derallieur.
The drop-outs are Campag.
Head badge looks undisturbed and no sign of any lug lining.
The forks have the sloping crown but I can't yet get them out due to sieved stem. It twists with som leverage but will not move in or out!!!
Any assistance in identifying greatly appreciated.
Having some problem loading pics so will try to reduce size!
Just acquired this frame set yesterday so looking for some help in identifying it.
It seems to have some similarities to the discussion around wobler's flamboyant green and white frame.
The serial number on the bottom bracket is 74770. It is stamped into the front of the BB just to left of centre on the drive side. The punches are quite fine.
The rear stays are 5/8" at the rear bridge joint and at the bottom of the wrap over.
Unlike wobler's the lugs are pierced.
The brazed fittings are button under down tube, cable guide for rear derallieur and single fitting for rear cable outer, single cable guide on down tube for cable outer to front derallieur.
The drop-outs are Campag.
Head badge looks undisturbed and no sign of any lug lining.
The forks have the sloping crown but I can't yet get them out due to sieved stem. It twists with som leverage but will not move in or out!!!
Any assistance in identifying greatly appreciated.
Having some problem loading pics so will try to reduce size!
