Holdsworth Frame Numbers

[baronsouthside]

Re:

Thanks for everyone's input helping me try to date the bike.

Lets review the facts.
1. I have a blue bike.
2. It has a serial number H130920
:facepalm:

So if Ive collated all the info correctly and if Easter of 1985 was April 7th that'll mean Marlboro were at Holdsworth's Oakfield Road works from approx March '85 (when theoretically the 6 digit SNs end?) to the end of '85 and during that nine month period, production of Holdsworths continued but with different serial numbers but we don't really know what these serial numbers are like.

And we think my bike was made at the Oakfield Road site in this nine month period and has one of these serial numbers that we dont know much about?

The Oakfield Road factory closes and the 1986 Marlboro Holdworth models with their new specs and colour schemes started being produced at the Alma works in the West Midlands? (The 1986 catalogue gives Alma as the address. The 84 cat' gives Oakfield as the address.)

Now ive learnt how to resize pics here is my bikes BB again with enhanced Marlboro SN and a known 6 digit SN triath-elan's BB thats probably on the database for comparison. I have to say my stamping isn't nearly as neat as the 6 digit version. Now I'm doubting again. If you're the stamper and are used to taking pride in a neat 6 digit row why alter how you stamp?. Surely the stamping forman wouldn't allow it either. At the end of the day its only one more character. Neatly done it would fit no problem. Arghh... :shock:

 

[dwscrimshaw]

To be honest I wouldn’t get too obsessed abut the way the numbers are stamped, we have seen some very odd and difficult to read examples. Even the other 6D example your show is in an unusual location. Typically a 6D number is on the front of the BB higher up on the drive side of the downtube. But not always. I have just looked in the Excel file and can see some on the bottom middle too. The is one with braze on cable guides across it and at least one tucked into the plastic cable guide.

I understand that there is no logic to the Falcon numbering and updated my file with a couple of quotes so I suspect the same goes for Marlboro too. I am inclined to think this is the first example of a split number post 6D. As for the timing you propose I am not sure it is clear exactly what went on and when or why. As you say the facts are you have a Holdsworth designed model built to their specification. I would say that just as good as anything with a 6D number, it may have come out of their factory or not, difficult to know. I would ride it and enjoy, renovate it as a genuine Holdsworth, who looks at the number when you are out on it!

 

[CBguy]

Re:

I agree with Dave. Fact that this is likely a Holdsworthy Oakfield road stickered frame built at time of 1985 transitioning to Marlboro ownership does make it a very interesting frame.

 

[PaulDC]

Re: Another Holdsworth

I have a holdsworth with frame number 026106 which I think dates it to 1980.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Yes, this would fit our predictions for 1980. Any more details?

 

[PaulDC]

Re:

Its a frame and forks I bought over a year ago in quite poor condition, has the 3 brake cable guides on the top tube, cable guides on top of the BB, gear cable stop on the rear stay. What other info would help?
Have been searching the net trying to discover what model it could be.
It does have the remains of a 531 sticker on the seat tube but I cant see anything on the forks to say they might have been 531.
The holdsworth decals are white with black outline and use the same size lettering on the down tube and seat tube.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Ok, thanks. I would like to log the number in the excel database and attach a picture etc. If you want to ID the frame some pictures would also help as people on this forum should soon advise what model it is. It has the std 6 digit number Holdswoth used so should be quite easy to sort out what model it is. The cable guides sound right for that year, my Special from latter the same year is like that. But each model changed features at different times as far as I can see so those features alone do not identify the model. It would be good to see the whole frame and close ups of the lugs, rear brake bridge, seat clamp etc.

 

[Eric_Luttrell]

Hey Gents,

I'm nearly certain this is not a Holdsworth frame just from the number. I thought someone here might have some input as to what it might be.

What I know:
Size: 61cm
Dropouts: Campy
Serial Number MPV 289

The lugs are quite nicely done. The rear brake bridge may reveal some clues. The fellow I bought it from believed it came from the early 1960s because of the components that were on it. His guess was that it was a Mercian, Carlton or Holdsworth. I don't think it fits any of those frame builders numbering schemes though.

This frame is going to be the "working" frame for building up my Holdsworth Tricycle conversion kit. It's a bit large for me, but it'll do while I get the Holdsworth kit restored.

As always, thanks for your inputs and advice.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

There is a period in both the 60's and 70's where Holdsworth moved to using a 4 digit system. There seems to be no leading zero so 3 digits would be right for numbers below 1000. The did mark them across the centre of the BB, but not seem one so far forward as this. For it to be a Holdsworth number your would have to ignore the letters which again is not unusual to have these as well but not as part of the number.

The lugs do look familiar, but I would start by trying to find a Holdsworth model that has all those features first. I would look around the early 60's, by 1965 they were back on the 5 digit numbers. I think identifying that straight rear brake bridge with the attachment lugs to a specific model would be the key. Then if that model was around in the early 60's, or possibly the 70's, then that would match the numbering system.

The history site is suspended currently, but there are catalogues available on the VCC website. Google would also have a load of images to look at. You can also look at examples of four digit numbers in the number data base. For the time being I am putting this in the other Holdsworth pile as a potencial. We do have others in this group with Nervex Pro Lugs which yours seems to also have.

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/fold ... TNKZkN4TmM

 

[keithglos]

I can't recall those brake bridges being as early as 1960's. There is something about the frame that feels like a retro production, trying to look earlier than it is.
Are the ends Campagnolo?

Keith