Holdsworth Frame Numbering

[dwscrimshaw]

"As regards frame number 023533, yes I agree 1980 if going by the production volume graph. If you post some picture these other more knowledgeable contributors might be able to identify it."

Hi dwscrimshaw I posted a question about my frame a while ago under the title "Claud Butler help needed" which included some photos nobody seam to be able to pinpoint a model name but we were looking at it as a CB note a Holdsworth :facepalm:

Thanks for the clarification I have now put this down as a CB.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Had a look through the numbers again and plotted them trying to respect the original dates where they seemed good. I have plotted the chart again with the 'no date' and question mark 1979 date adjusted to where they would typically fit. In addition I have move #33676 to 1981 as we have another number in that year 33674 and the production level to for 1980 would be over 10k frames if the other dates are correct. Also I have moved two from 1983 as they were higher than the two 1984 numbers and again would put production for that year too high, 20k+ (These changes are marked in Red on table)

This leaves a few frames that lie just outside the predicted volume lines. I am could leave them as they are as we are only predicting production volumes across the years from 3 set points. That said I did make four additional adjustments to see what a move of one year looked like. Although this goes against reported dates everything then fits. (These are marked in Amber)

Any further thoughts?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... TNKZkN4TmM

 

[torqueless]

Re:

I think you need to remove '23034' from your table, if it is a result of my post/link on page four. My last post on page six contains the reason..

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Yes, Thanks. That was bit of an oversight, I asked for confirmation then ignored it! Updated now and on cloud too.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Interesting E-Bay add. 80's Elan '...Owned new in 1981...'. Shop tag clearly shows frame number 057977.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOLDSWORTH-EL ... SwaB5XqfBM

Number is far too high compared with others documented as 81. http://www.nkilgariff.com/ shows a 81 Elan frame number 031692 and highlights Holdsworth decal position for 81/84 and lack of rear spindle adjusting screws for 81.

I am using this as 84 model because of decal position. (not just because the number happens to fit 1984 nicely, honest!)

 

[torqueless]

Re:

In further support of your temporal repositioning, that Elan at the link also has the 'winged' Reynolds decals which are generally referred to as 'post 1982' over at HLloyd..

So is that downtube Holdsworthy decal position unique to '81 Elans, or would you expect to find it on other ('81?) models as well?

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Yes, I think the comment on the decal implied it was in this position for 84 only. They can't be both 1981 the production for that year would be way too high to cover both. I did notice the Elan decal was totally wrong, not sure what the relevance of that is. It looked very non-std to me.

Not wishing to be accused of looking for evidence to support a preconceived idea, but I just can't see this as a 81 model. not unless every other frame number we have from this period is therefore incorrect. All we can be sure of is that there is defiantly an Elan out there with this number.

Anyway off on hol next two weeks, will not be giving this any further thought unless really bored.

 

[torqueless]

Re:

I pulled my forks this morning, dwscrimshaw.. There is no serial number stamped on the steerer-tube.

My mistake- I just pulled 'em again, as part of a complete strip down, and there is a number 034264 on the steerer matching the BB number. I missed it before 'cause it was in an unexpected location- up the non-drive side near the crown race.. Is that the customary Holdsworthy location?

Funny how fugitive frame numbers and such miraculously reveal themselves when you aren't having to reassemble the bike to rideable condition inside a few hours, 'cause it is your primary mode of transport.. :|

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Thanks, Good to know they match. Yes I had similar issue with my Columbus frame, didn't notice the number for ages as it was only 4 digits and very small. I was under the impression it was Reynolds as banged until Hillary Stone sorted me out on some niggling questions I had.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Hi, changing subject has anyone got any advise on where I can find a set of forks for my 58 Monsoon. I think these are the original short point type for a 57cm/22.5" frame.

I need to get along to some cycle jumbles and have also placed a wanted ad. Any further thoughts?