HELP with frame id peugeot perthus pro reynolds 753

Re:

If it's anything like other high-end Reynolds frames from Raleigh for example, the stays are not made of the same tubing. As they're brazed to the lugs, it's possible that they are not 753.
Although Reynolds did supply seat & chainstays, many manufacturers opted out of using them on grounds of cost vs the benefit to the overall frame weight & handling.
 
Re: Re:

Osella":2bwao8m1 said:
If it's anything like other high-end Reynolds frames from Raleigh for example, the stays are not made of the same tubing. As they're brazed to the lugs, it's possible that they are not 753.
Although Reynolds did supply seat & chainstays, many manufacturers opted out of using them on grounds of cost vs the benefit to the overall frame weight & handling.

I'am sure i seen that somewhere thats its only the three main tubes
 
Re: Re:

Robster914":1n0s28mf said:
Hi, I just had a look at my Perthus pro. It is identical to yours except mine is original grey/chrome. Also has chain holder on rear stay. All other fittings are identical including double bottle cage mounts. The winner may be my serial number.

B71036665 is very close to yours..

Would the seat post diameter confirm?

just had a look at the serial numbers very close indeed B71036755 B71036665
 
Midlife":oe2mnm0j said:
Just rechecked the pics, looks silver brazed which points to 753....

Shaun

Just had a look at the frame again both silver and bronze brazing .
Bronze inside lugs and silver where anything is attached to the tubes , eg cable guide , gear mounts , the parts between the stays .
Its got me stumped, Right weight for a 753 looks like a Peugeot Perthus 753 almost same frame id as the one Robster914 has B71036755 B71036665
 
Well I'd be happy to say that the frame is all 753. They might have substituted lower range stays, but they would still have to have used a lowish temperature rod for the seat cluster fillets, because of the heat treated 753 main tubes, so wouldn't have gained much. The 653 tube set used 753 material stays, too.

As for the braze material colours, they'd have probably used high silver content alloy ( eg: SIF43 55%Ag, 630-660ºC) for all the lugged joints. The tight working temperature (solidus/liquidus range) gives it better capillary action, quick to build (lower heat volume) with the low temp characteristics needed for 753.

However, the stays and seat clamp bolt required a large volume fillet, so they would have probably switched to a lower silver (eg: SIF39, 38%Ag, 650-725ºC) thus cheaper and more bronze coloured alloy for those. The wider solidus/liquidus temp range allows easier fillet building, with less need for very tight temperature control, but still keeps temps fairly low. It is also less prone to cooling cracks in fillets than the high silver stuff.

Straight bronze alloys used on most cro-mo and mang-mo frames runs much higher (eg: tight range SIFBronze #1, 870-890º for lugs and wider range SIFBronze #2, 920-980ºC for fillets).

The 700ºC required to build a fillet using something like SIF39 would still be quite safe, as the joint is onto the back of the thick lug, away from the main tubes. The stays themselves were nominally 0.6mm wall (but generally thicker because of the swaging required for the double taper) and unlikely to fail up at the top, where the triangulation is so good. Personally I usually silver brazed a plug fitting top eye into the stay, then fillet brazed the top eye onto the lug, but this is more expensive than the direct approach here.

The previous silver brazing of the seat lug onto the seat and top tubes would not have reached a temp high enough to affect the main tube joints as it requires more heat to un-braze than braze freshly. Also the larger mass (compared to the seat stays) of the top tube and seat tube would have kept the main frame temperatures low while brazing the seat clamp and stays.

The braze-ons would have been 40-45% silver again for speed (lower costs) and lower heating.
Also it's really easy to overheat tiny parts like those top tube cable guides if trying to get to brazing temps (800-900ºC) at the same rate as the tube to which they are being fitted. The guide can be red hot before there's any real sign of the tube or flux warming. Much better, easier and quicker to warm the area of tube around the braze-on and let conduction heat the small part to silver temps (600-650ºC).

All the best,
 
Re:

Ok were happy to say it's a Peugeot 753 with its style , weight , and the brazing.

Happy to say it's a 1987 Frame No B71036755

After looking at the 1987 Peugeot brochure united kingdom , The only 753 they were doing was the
PZSIS PEUGEOT PERTHUS 753R Changed name to PERTHUS pro in 1988 ?

All this just to make sure i label it correct


What do you think ???????
 
If it wasn't for the braze colours I would chime in with the fact that 531P was the same sort of weight as 753 so possibly not 753 based on weight alone.

Just read this in the Adrian Timmis bike article in the comic which maybe explains why so many 753 Peugeots have chrome, which is not recommended for 753.

"Made from Reynolds 753 tubing with chromed 531 forks and stays,"

Mark.
 
Re:

mmmmmmmm :facepalm:

Do you know what bikes Peugeot made with Reynolds 531P
for the uk in 1987

Why did peugeot make all the frames so alike
 
Back
Top