HELP: Vintage Claud Butler Frame Identification

[Kona_Jake85]

Hi, I've recently purchased a vintage Claud Butler and I'm trying to find out the model name and year it was made as there is no name decal on the top tube. I believe the bicycle to be from the mid 1980's, possibly a Dalesman or Majestic model but I can't be sure? Is it possible to find out using the serial number? This is 046383

I've looked online for period photos as I wish to restore the bicycle to it's original look for Eroica Britannia but I can't find any photos of Claud Butler models from this era in black, which is making me question whether or not the frame has been painted?

The bicycle hasn't been ridden much and does look to be in original condition apart from the rear mudguard modification. The frame is Reynolds 531 and has Suntour dropouts. Forks are also Reynolds 531 and the decals all look original. Wheels are Super Champion (made in France), Brooks B17 saddle, Esge mudguards and Weinmann brakes. Please see attached photos. Any help would be much appreciated. Many thanks, Jake

 

[Peachy!]

Hello, that number puts the frame production right at the end of 1982.
And she looks like a Panache, introduced in 1983 in Black I think. Although no one has found a copy of the 1983 catalogue to check.
The Panache was advertised in 1984 with a black frame in the catalogue but it’s listed as “Steel Blue”
The B17 could possibly be a shop upgrade if original as these where only sold on the Dalesman.

Thing to check; do the Reynolds stickers state PG/plain gauge or Butted?

 

[Kona_Jake85]

Hi Peachy, thanks for your reply and info on the 1983 Panache model. It makes sense and the spec apart from the saddle and rack does sound very similar. I'd seen them online but was just a bit confused by the 'Steel Blue' colour and my CB being Black. I've attached some photos of the Reynolds frame and fork decals (bike is upside down at the moment). Neither of them say Plain Gauge or Butted? Thanks

 

[Peachy!]

Ok, so the seat tube sticker is circa 1982 – 1989 for tubing, and in itself doesn’t tell us anything definitive. The fork decals however were normally matched with competition tubing like on the top of the range frame-set ‘Brevet’, coincidently the only (other than the Tandem) bike offered with a choice of colour!
Only real way to tell is by weight (although un-helpfully both the Brevet & Panache come in at 11.3Kg) but at least they are both lighter than the rest of the gang all coming in at between 12.2 & 12.7 kg. (weights complete)

So where does that leave you?
Option 1, the lights were standard catalogue on the Panache, and its possible it was black in 1983.
Option 2, The option for Black is currently only documented on the 1984 Brevet and we don’t know if it was available in 1983.
Until someone find a 1983 catalogue that’s as close as we are going to get.

 

[roadking]

Re:

Style of seat tube decal usually denotes main tubes only, not stays.

Rk.

 

[Peachy!]

Re: Re:

Style of seat tube decal usually denotes main tubes only, not stays.

Rk.

Yes, that had me a bit stumped, doesn’t really fit in with the fork sticker.... unless the whole thing was a respray with miss-matched new stickers... but I was trying to be more positive.....

One more question; does the frame have threaded inserts in the down tube for the bottle cage?

 

[roadking]

Re: Re:

Style of seat tube decal usually denotes main tubes only, not stays.

Rk.

Yes, that had me a bit stumped, doesn’t really fit in with the fork sticker.... unless the whole thing was a respray with miss-matched new stickers... but I was trying to be more positive.....

Many factory frames had Reynolds main tubes and fork blades...marketing over substance perhaps.

Rk.

 

[Kona_Jake85]

Thanks again for your research and model suggestions Peachy. Both options sound realistic, it's a shame we don't have a 1983 catalogue to help us!

I'm hoping the frame hasn't been resprayed and re-stickered. I can confirm that there are no threaded inserts in the down tube or the seat tube for a bottle cage.

Where does this leave us now? Thanks

 

[Peachy!]

Thanks again for your research and model suggestions Peachy. Both options sound realistic, it's a shame we don't have a 1983 catalogue to help us!

I'm hoping the frame hasn't been resprayed and re-stickered. I can confirm that there are no threaded inserts in the down tube or the seat tube for a bottle cage.

Where does this leave us now? Thanks

OK, I should have asked about the bottle cage bosses earlier, before getting carried away with the idea of a Brevet or a Panache, as both those and the Dalesman have them. :facepalm:

The only bike in the 1982 range without bottle mounts and without seat stay braze-ons for a panier rack is the Cresta, unless of course someone ordered a frame set without either…always a possibility.

The only thing left to do is weigh it.
If it weighs just over 12Kg its likely to be a Cresta
If it weighs just over 11Kg it could well be a bespoke customer ordered Panache or Brevet

 

[Kona_Jake85]

Re:

Ok thanks i’ll look at weighing it went it’s all restored.

There’s no way that it could be a 1983 Majestic model as that has no cage mounts on the frame? It also has matching 531 frame tubes and forks, similar cranks, matching mudguards and rear rack. The only thing that is different on mine from looking at pics of the 1984 model are the horizontal suntour dropouts and the black paint job, but these could have been different on the 1983 model? Cheers