Help/information about Sun Worksop bikes needed please!

[DermotD]

This is one for Old Ned

You mentioned you rode Sun Racing bikes during the 60's and I wonder what you thought of them, were the competition machines good bikes to ride or were Sun behind the competition by that stage.

Also would you know if the competition bikes were actually made in house or was it something that was sent out to specialist companies to do? Would any of the bikes actually marketed by Sun to the public at the time been considered serious bikes. Carlton produced frame sets for sale to competition riders and also their marketing materials of the time makes several references to major events and world records being won by riders on Carlton Bikes so I wonder how seriously were they viewed in competition circles of the time, either domestically or on the world stage?

I also noticed a lot of riders swopped around between teams especially Raleigh, Carlton and Sun so was the entire thing basically one?

 

[Old Ned]

This is one for Old Ned

You mentioned you rode Sun Racing bikes during the 60's and I wonder what you thought of them, were the competition machines good bikes to ride or were Sun behind the competition by that stage.

Also would you know if the competition bikes were actually made in house or was it something that was sent out to specialist companies to do? Would any of the bikes actually marketed by Sun to the public at the time been considered serious bikes. Carlton produced frame sets for sale to competition riders and also their marketing materials of the time makes several references to major events and world records being won by riders on Carlton Bikes so I wonder how seriously were they viewed in competition circles of the time, either domestically or on the world stage?

I also noticed a lot of riders swopped around between teams especially Raleigh, Carlton and Sun so was the entire thing basically one?

I didn't say I rode Sun racing bikes, I said I rode the one in the photo of Dave Dungworth I've linked to. (Well, as far as I know it was that one.) Dave was riding the criterium on Weston-super-Mare promenade and I cheekily asked him if I could 'have a go' and he let me do a couple of laps during the warm-up period. This was the Saturday evening. Sunday morning was the Weston-Bristol-Weston time trial which the Pros rode and I think the photo of Dave is taken during that event.

I would think that the Sun team frames would be exactly the same as the Carlton (or Raleigh) ones, generally built I presume, in the Carlton factory. (Although see also my recent thread - see link below - about links between various manufacturers). I don't think the Sun brand was ever (during the Raleigh days) seen as a 'serious' competition brand. The Sun pro teams were there to publicise Sun to the great unwashed rather than to the 'cogniscenti' of the club world. There are several RB members far more able to comment on this than me!

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... highlight=

However, Carlton (and later Raleigh) was a serious race brand and many top amateur riders rode them to success in all facets of the sport.

Whether there was any 'collusion' between the Raleigh brand teams during races I've no idea. Knowing some of the personalities involved I doubt it as they were riding to make money - mainly for themselves, the very reason for being a professional.

 

[Old Ned]

To show top amateurs riding Carltons here are a couple of shots I took in 1968 (with a very poor camera!). First is Bas Breedon Rockingham CC who was a TT champion and won loads of events, here at the turn in the '68 25 mile championships near Northwich, mounted on his Carlton. Next is Mike Gadd Clevelys RC in another 25 mile event also near Northwich riding his Team Professional frame. He was also a prolific winner.

Almost certainly neither of them had any financial involvement with Carlton at all. They just liked their frames!

 

[DermotD]

to Old Ned

Thanks for the additional information and sorry about misunderstanding your earlier post about riding the Sun bike. Also I didn't mean to imply the riders colluded, though I have heard that if a rider thought he had a serious chance of winning a stage or event he might try to recruit some assistance along the way! I was really just wondering if within Raleigh/Carlton/Sun the teams would have been managed and administered as one corporate team with riders allocated among the various brands by management from year to year or were the teams each self contained and managed separately? However I asked the question on the misunderstanding you had ridden for Sun but you may still have an insight.

 

[keithglos]

Dermot,
From what I remember the raleigh teams at that time were seperately managed and run. This was before raleigh had a market for competition bikes. The team bikes then probably cost too much to make on an individual basis to be able to sell.
The standard production bikes were, as I indicated, low end compared with competition bikes. A top road bike in 1965 was about £80. In 1972 I paid about £70 for our Colnago frame only, which is no lightweight. By 1980 the 2 Mosers with Columbus SL, titanium group set and mavic SSC's were £500 each.

Young Ned (Paul)
I have recently found some old mono video I did in 1974/5, including Weston/bristol TT. In 1975 Phil Edwards won it, he was a Moser team member in Italy. It was Phil who brought over my 2 specially built Mosers at the end of 1979.
Madam was first vet in 1975. PM me, I might be able to copy it.

 

[Old Ned]

Just been looking at the photos taken in this year's Retro Ronde van Vlaanderen and found this - an old team member still wearing his old team jersey? Possibly not unless anyone recognises him.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1130979518 ... 0148789042

Well worth looking through all the photos on the site. Great atmosphere and some super bikes etc. MUST GO NEXT YEAR!!

I rode the w-b-w TT in '68 - and found it bl**dy hard!! Didn't bother again and anyway, my sister moved to Surrey so I didn't have any cheap lodgings any more.

 

[Some Guy]

Got it finished so thought I'd post a few pics. The "before" pics are in a link a few posts further up.

I know it wont be to every ones taste But I wanted to keep the panels in the original positions AND paint the the tubular seatstay wrap-over this way, an the rest just followed.

All I added was a lucky dip mix of H. Lloyd decals, a bargain Brooks from Ebay, 3 rattle cans, some alternative used tyres from my spares box an plenty of Autosol, tinfoil and vinega.

The black Bluemel Soveriegn mudguards that came with this bike were in great condition, but look much better on my other bike

 

[Spokesmann]

Thats is so nice. Love the colour scheme too. I wouldn't mind an old Sun myself. by the way is better than about 90% of the stuff I see on here!

 

[Some Guy]

Thats is so nice. Love the colour scheme too. I wouldn't mind an old Sun myself. by the way is better than about 90% of the stuff I see on here!

Thanks for the nice comments. I know not every one likes painted lugs, but I luv 'em! Must be a phase I'm going through

 

[agogo]

I'm the new owner!

Some Guy,
I am 99% sure that I am the new owner of the blue sun.
I've had it since April and have had loads of great rides on it. It's been a great bike around London and I have also taken it on some slightly longer trips, like the Dunwich dynamo. The bike and I are going to Serbia in a couple of weeks for a smaller tour around the Balkans.

Since you last saw it it has been fitted with new campag/mavic wheels with modern road tyres, they aren't as true to the authentic vintage feel, but the swap did take a whole lot of weight and rolling resistance off. When my economy allows it the bike will get a bit of that retro feel back with a pair of challenge criterium gumwall tyres.

It's also been fitted with a lovely randonneur-style front rack, a slightly smoother suntour mech and a pair of vintage track toe cages with double leather straps.

A few spots of paint has come off and so have parts of the little ribbon decals - it would be great if you could tell me what paint you have used so I can fill it in and also where you got the decals from.

Pretty amazing finding a post on a forum about your own bike!

Hope it pleases you to know that the bike is being well looked after and much appreciated!