Help id'ing this Orange

[Silvergoat]

Hi,
I bought my Orange frame, and forks, back in Feb 1994. The store owner gave me a set of Clockwork graphics (1994 according to Gil M), to apply myself. I've never been quite sure what frame and vintage it actually is though – I suspect it was a spare frame that the store owner had had hanging around for a while. It has the old metal derailleur cable guide on top left of the BB shell. The rear wishbone meets the seat tube lower down. Frame number A319 40163 is stamped around the underside of the BB, same side as the metal derailleur cable guide. Does anyone know if this a Clockwork or otherwise from the late 80's/early 90's?

Thanks,
H

 

[gerryattrick]

can you weigh it.
do all the stops look original and no chop marks where the above bottom bracket guide would have been.

good fun.

With stuck seatpost it weighs between 5.5 and 5.75 lbs (average of 4 weighings on bathroom scales. Nothing more accurate available ) A cheap, but long seatpost probably just under 0.5 ibs, so frame weight estimate at around 5 lbs or 2.6kg. Not particularly light.

All stops look good and no cable guides removed at BB.

Here are some pics after I stripped the paint off.

 

[Dossa]

Surely a 1993 Clockwork?

 

[cce]

With stuck seatpost it weighs between 5.5 and 5.75 lbs (average of 4 weighings on bathroom scales. Nothing more accurate available ) A cheap, but long seatpost probably just under 0.5 ibs, so frame weight estimate at around 5 lbs or 2.6kg. Not particularly light.

All stops look good and no cable guides removed at BB.

Here are some pics after I stripped the paint off.

a decent seatpost weighs in the order of 0.5lb, e.g Thomson 230g =~ 0.5lb

cheap ones are much MUCH more.

 

[jimo746]

Surely a 1993 Clockwork?

 

[Coleman]

Brazed bb cluster? :?

 

[gerryattrick]

93 Clockwork seems to be front runner at the moment and I'll gladly accept that, but there are quite a few differences between this one and pics of 93 Clockworks elsewhere e.g.

1. cable stops at top of top tube, not to the side
2. Cable stops are 3 separate braze-ons, not one unit of 3
3. Chainstay bridge
4. No pannier lugs on dropouts
5. No water bottle bosses on seat tube
6. Curved profile on seat tube reinforcement

To further muddy the water the decals look more like the 89 ones: viewtopic.php?t=73411

Did models vary so much in any one year?


Aaaaaaaaaaargh - I'm confused

 

[Anthony]

It's definitely nowhere near as late as 93. By that time, the seatstay join with the seat tube was almost up to the level of the top tube. This style where it meets well below is the earliest style. The weight is also consistent with earlier, rather than later.

From your photo, it looks as though the seat tube joint with the bb shell is brazed rather than welded - if so, that would indicate a repair. It's possible that the frame had to have a full restoration at some point, which would explain some of the anomalous features. If it had to have a new bottom bracket shell, that would explain the lack of a serial number.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Like this (paininthe's when he first rode with me http://www.oneflewover.me.uk/orange/)

or does it look like this, grab his/her serial number to confirm year.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1993-Orange-P ... 1061242606

(now I can look better other than on a dodgy slow, dropping internet connection with a tiny screen...)
From your photo's above I would say the frame has been modified.
The middle cable stop is a different style to the other two. Is the seat stay one for the mech of the same style.
Also, like Anthony say, the the bottom bracket is not attached at it would have been, so probably a new one or something.

So concur with earlier, like 1991 earlier.

 

[Rob H]

If you look carefully the middle cable guides are a slighty different style to the outer to, which would suggest that they've been added at a later date, most probably to allow the frame to be used with a top pull front mech. I'd hazard a guess that the cable guide that is normally brazed on the bottom bracket was removed at the same time.