Help identifying old Sun bike, J-frame

[cycletothesea]

Can anybody help me get a handle on this Sun. Picked up today off eBay.

Been looking at Spokesmann's gorgeous Sun Cycle which was a J number just like this one. Mine is J921 but it has 531-type seat stays rather than the Truwell wrap-arounds. Also I've not seen this type of livery on other Sun's that I've looked at online. So I'd be interested to hear any information at all from those who know more than me. Did a google search but couldn't find anything definitive.

Thanks
P.

 

[OldTel]

Hi, its a nice bike, and needs a good investigation, which can take time, see http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... p;t=269666 Terry

 

[cycletothesea]

LOL - Didn't realise the guy I bought it from had already asked the same question. It looks like he's added the Sun Worksop head badge before selling it on, so perhaps it's earlier than Worksop. The only info I know was Spokesmann's Sun Snipe restoration which also had a J-number on the dropout, and was declared to be a good quality Sun Snipe, but that had the wrap-over seat stays.

I've looked at a few of the older forums on Retrobike regarding Sun Cycles, just can't find anything definitive. If it was made around the time of Raleigh/Carlton/Sun mergers then I guess it will be difficult to work out the age, or even a model type.

Am I right in assuming that if it's not Truwell wrapover tubing, then it is likely to be Reynolds, or was there something else around at the time?

 

[OldTel]

Hi, checkout the seat post diameter - 27.2mm will be 531 db, also checkout my previous suggestion about the Oscar egg lugs, its worth chasing up as they were used on some nice bikes early in the fifties. A sun serial number from the fifties will consist of a two or three letter prefix with a serial number ( usually 3 or 4 digits ) following, hence my hints against it being a sun. Terry

 

[cycletothesea]

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/sun-wasp-rest.html

Okay, seems to me to be a Sun Wasp late 1950's, the piece from classiclightweigthts.co.uk is very, very similar in styling, if not condition.

Also, really similar to this Retrobike posting.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=257059&hilit=sun+prestige

And the image attached, was from an LFGSS ad for a 1950's Sun Wasp, this could be my bike.

 

[cycletothesea]

Hi, checkout the seat post diameter - 27.2mm will be 531 db, also checkout my previous suggestion about the Oscar egg lugs, its worth chasing up as they were used on some nice bikes early in the fifties. A sun serial number from the fifties will consist of a two or three letter prefix with a serial number ( usually 3 or 4 digits ) following, hence my hints against it being a sun. Terry

Interesting, you say it can't be a Sun due to the frame number. How did you get this information, is there somewhere online listing Sun serial numbers?

P.

 

[OldTel]

Hi, its not online, but there's a book by Peter Cowan http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/S ... edir_esc=y that has the information in, and also Peter is the VCC Sun and Parkes expert, and very helpful, hence my bit of knowledge on the subject. Just for reference, theres a good general serial number article on Peter Underwoods website http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/fr ... ering.html. I'm afraid theres no easy answer to this, I usually just keep my eyes open when visiting websites on vintage bikes, happy hunting, I'll keep my eyes open for you. Terry

 

[cycletothesea]

To update:
I contacted Power Cowan, the Sun Marque enthusiast. He's lad a look at his records and says that my Sun is probably a Snipe Plus built at Worksop between April - August, 1972. He says it's unusual to see Reynolds tubing on but he thinks it could well have been one of the last decent Sun frames built at Worksop before they became marginalised when Raleigh concentrated on the Carlton bikes.

I guess in the days of hand-built frames it was possible that there was plenty of Reynolds and Truwell tubing all floating around the same factory.

 

[OldTel]

Hi, well you live and learn, interesting choice of lugs for a Raleigh/Carlton 70's bike, with Cyclo dropouts. Terry.

 

[cycletothesea]

Okay, still slightly confused. Emailed Spokesmann, who says it has to be the J frame from 1961 rather than 1972, due to it having Cyclo dropouts. Don't really know much about Cyclo dropouts and why that matters. But my Sun seems to be a bit of a collection of all sorts of bit and pieces from different times.