Help ID builder of this mystery Nervex Pro frameset

[destry]

This one isn't going to be easy because Nervex Pro lugs aren't exactly uncommon. However, thoughts/ideas/theories welcome!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1058065037 ... directlink

Frame number on the fork steerer is 625101.

There is another number on the steerer and the BB shell: VV 168
I'm not sure about the VV -- it doesn't look like a proper V. It might even by "2V"...
Have a look at the photos and you'll see what I mean.

Frame has Agrati ends, oval-to-round fork blades, cable guides for front and rear changers but no derailleur hanger.

The most distinctive feature is the wrapover seat lug.

It came with an early 1950s Stronglight headset and a 1960s (I think) Stronglight 49D.

Thanks!

 

[Old Ned]

Late 50's/early 60's with those frame fittings. Possibly the '62' in the number is a clue. The full wrap-over seat cluster may be a pointer to its lineage (Please don't anyone say 'Rourke', way before his time). Trying to think where I've seen a builder with this feature in very recent times.

Must be my age................

 

[Midlife]

Lots of frames came with Nervex Lugs and wrapover stays.....from Ellis Briggs to Dave Davey to those from Cliff Pratt where I worked as a lad.

I wonder if the numbers mean anything?

Shaun

 

[destry]

Re:

Yes, late fifties early sixties was my supposition, too, Ned -- let me know if your brain locates that missing link!

I'm sure the frame numbers do mean something... The question is, what? I'm hoping someone may recognise a pattern in there.

I did wonder if the V was an initial, but the only candidate I came up with was Vic Edwards. It's a pretty weak connection by itself, and I don't know enough about his work to say if it's at all plausible.

Cheers,

 

[keithglos]

I would say mid 50s, Simplex gears, 49D, down tube pump, early for wrap over, lamp bracket.
The forks look right, but not sure they are original. Domed and slotted rear stays, but not forks.
Class frame.

 

[roadking]

Re:

I'm tempted to suggest it is a trade frame.

There's little evidence of labour intensive hand finishing exemplified by the flanges on the head lugs - you wouldn't see these on a high end frame from a reputable builder.

Rk.

N.B that's not saying it is of poor quality.

 

[destry]

Re:

That's certainly a possibility, though I think the wrapovers, which are time-consuming to do, are evidence against. Also, Classic Lightweights has lots of photos of some very fine frames with the strengthening ribs on the Nervex Pro head lugs intact, so I don't think this tells us much in itself.

Of course, at this time nearly all frames were built locally to order, and it didn't necessarily make much difference whether they were built at the back of the shop or a few miles away -- you could still order special features if you wanted to, and your frame could end up being built by a legend... Or equally, by a journeyman with a nasty hangover!

Keep 'em coming!

 

[keithglos]

Re:

I always preferred to keep the headlugs as supplied, never allowed any I sold to be filed off.
Keith

 

[predki]

Re:

from here: http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/evans_davidfossard.htm

 

[destry]

Outstanding spot, predki! The remnants of the markings on the BB on my frame look very much like the W there. I don't suppose you know what the number next to the W is? It's too bleached out for me to see... And any idea of the name of the marque enthusiast?

Many thanks for this great lead!