'Handling' - what influences our sense of - a discussion

[lewis1641]

the thing with the way this discussion is going is that it is easy for us to swap saddle/stem/grips/tyres so we know they make a difference.

I doubt there are many that can say they know exactly how slackening the head angle off by half a degree will alter the handling (myself included).

In my opinion the handling characteristics of a bike are laid out in the geometry of the frame (and of course the fork)

 

[sylus]

tyres

 

[petitpal]

In my opinion the handling characteristics of a bike are laid out in the geometry of the frame (and of course the fork)

I think that, ultimatley, I agree with that statement. However if the other things aren't right you're never going to find out because the bike will handle terribly. For example, I know that if I took two bikes with virtually identical kit - one of which was custom built for me and the other with an off the peg cheapish frame (but not BSO cheap) and whacked good tyres on the cheap one and shot ones on the custom - the cheap one would handle better on the trail. Might sound hugely obvious but that implies that good tyres outweigh the benefits of the frame and that's sort of the way it is, I think.

However, given identical kit then it's a different story. When, many years ago, I upgraded much of the kit off my Saracen Maxtrax (including wheels, tyres, stem, forks, saddle and so forth) on to my Zaskar LE the difference was staggering. It climbed better, descended better did, well, everything better and that was down, I think, to geometery (and maybe weight?)

 

[stewlewis]

I'd say first would be geometry to the handling. The relation of the contact point triangle of saddle, pedals, grips to the spindles on the wheels and BB.

Then comfort is a big factor to how it feels, saddle, grips and also bar width and crank length.

Tyres are dependant on surface and can be changed or inflated to suit.

Then there's the feel, smooth hydrauilc brakes, snooth changes, nice feel to levers and cables, etc. Smooth running will make you feel the bike handles better as you'll not think about the bike so much.

All things being equal then i guess materials will come into play.

And of course weight, but thats terrain dependent too.

I think its a personal thing for any chosen piece of terrain.

 

[FairfaxPat]

The right size frame is the starting point, then the geometry, then the components. As LGF points out, perception of the brand counts in how you feel about a bike's handling. CK and I have talked for years about how it would be if you had a blind bike test of several well known brands given to the testers without ANY names or logos on them, and get their opinions on ride and handling-THEN-another test with the same bikes, logos intact, and compare the results. That being said, I think the bike you are riding currently feels best to you, and another bike with different geometry will feel strange until you ride it for some time, then it will feel right!

 

[johnnypie13]

random

When i was younger and fitter (a lot fitter) it had to be looks im afraid to say if it looked good and it was the right size it was a winner in my books

Now on the other hand it really has to fit me and not hurt my back so frame geometry is all important and as im not as fit as i used to be i seem to resorted back to Estay designs to make hills easier
p.s comfy saddle too

 

[Nigel777]

just out of interest.. what does BSO stand for?

 

[Dr S]

just out of interest.. what does BSO stand for?

Something to do with GT Zaskars I think.

Seriously though, I agree with many of the comments about fit. Set up is all important- a lever just a few degrees out, or a stem 10mm too long can really alter the way you feel on a bike. Talk to a top mechanic on the Pro Circuit and they will tell you how meticulous they set up bikes for their riders.

Once a bike is fettled to your liking, only then you can judge it against others. It is interesting to swap a frame out (it should be the same sizing to make a fair comparison) using identical parts, on the same day, on the same trails to experience the subtle differences that things like materials, butting, geometry etc can make to the riding experience. Everyone should try it at some point. The results are astounding. I love Fat Chance bikes to bits, but one day I swapped a Yo Eddy frame for a Whiskeytown Racer as a test and was blown away. The Yo was brilliant but the Goat was on a whole higher level. Truely sublime. Similar quality tubing, price point and almost the same geometry, but worlds apart.

Personally for me it is tyre performance. Even tyre pressures can affect the way I feel about a bike. A good tyre at tye right pressure can make or break any bike. No grip= no confidence. Likewise, a poor wheelset can kill even the best bike.

Si

 

[brocklanders023]

It's magic done by witches with pointy hats and noses. Fact.

What feels perfect to one person will be a dog to another.

 

[rc200ti]

What feels perfect to one person will be a dog to another.

And what feels perfect to a person one day will feel like a dog to the same person another day.
I don't have the skills to set a benchmark level of handling against which I can judge different components / materials. Size and fit need to be appropriate for the terrain, and if not they quickly make themselves known. But if I'm feeling good, and my body hangs on, then generally the ride feels tuned, the handling great, and everything's right with the world.