Graeme Obree: Hand-building the fastest bicycle in the world
- Thread starter otherself
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Hi other 
Nice post, even if I personally find it somewhat sad that he's taking this route to remain seen. Don't know the guy personally (would love to though) but I not only sympathise with his medical condition but actually know what he's going through on a 24-7 basis, I mean, the man's in his own back kitchen for gods sake with a grinder. It doesn't look good, it looks what it is, "a man unaware of his surroundings entrenched in his dreams".
"The man simply has too much intelligence for his own good, because he has no outlet for it". I know a lot about engineering (long story but I have designed a fair few modern day products that would shock some to know it was me). His bike will fail because he's focused too much on aerodynamics and not "power/delivery" Blood flow to his legs will be difficult in that position + he'll be using 30% of his energy simply to support his legs & body in that horizontal position. I guess I find it sad to see such a great man in this state.
1 day the world will comment when he's gone, "what a shame he never fitted into the norm, because he is undoubtedly 1 of the very few humans with superhuman powers & endurance as a cyclist". For me, he will remain an unsung hero long after he has gone simply because we live in a prejudiced world were his illness (trauma induced chronic depressive) will always be the basis for how folk percieve him as a character NOT as a cyclist who does what he does inspite of his illness. I can assure anyone reading this that his triumphs are exceptional in that he did what he did whilst being ill, a battle in itself simply to keep going, let alone ride like he does.
Thanks for the post, it's moved me as you can see I guess I love the guy for what he is, "warts and all", but he deserves better than that video. That man has been robbed of his life by the teatment he received from the WCF, and moreover the "credit for changing forever the face of modern day racing". Lotus & and its riders stole from him (and any others who stood by and let the WCF treat him that way). Sorry if you're watching, but Graeme Obree deserves never to be forgotten in his own lifetime simply because his illness gets in the way. I love him all the more because he pushes through it to be what he is, "A Man Born to be a Cycling Legend", yours Laz.
Nice post, even if I personally find it somewhat sad that he's taking this route to remain seen. Don't know the guy personally (would love to though) but I not only sympathise with his medical condition but actually know what he's going through on a 24-7 basis, I mean, the man's in his own back kitchen for gods sake with a grinder. It doesn't look good, it looks what it is, "a man unaware of his surroundings entrenched in his dreams"."The man simply has too much intelligence for his own good, because he has no outlet for it". I know a lot about engineering (long story but I have designed a fair few modern day products that would shock some to know it was me). His bike will fail because he's focused too much on aerodynamics and not "power/delivery" Blood flow to his legs will be difficult in that position + he'll be using 30% of his energy simply to support his legs & body in that horizontal position. I guess I find it sad to see such a great man in this state.
1 day the world will comment when he's gone, "what a shame he never fitted into the norm, because he is undoubtedly 1 of the very few humans with superhuman powers & endurance as a cyclist". For me, he will remain an unsung hero long after he has gone simply because we live in a prejudiced world were his illness (trauma induced chronic depressive) will always be the basis for how folk percieve him as a character NOT as a cyclist who does what he does inspite of his illness. I can assure anyone reading this that his triumphs are exceptional in that he did what he did whilst being ill, a battle in itself simply to keep going, let alone ride like he does.
Thanks for the post, it's moved me as you can see
I guess I love the guy for what he is, "warts and all", but he deserves better than that video. That man has been robbed of his life by the teatment he received from the WCF, and moreover the "credit for changing forever the face of modern day racing". Lotus & and its riders stole from him (and any others who stood by and let the WCF treat him that way). Sorry if you're watching, but Graeme Obree deserves never to be forgotten in his own lifetime simply because his illness gets in the way. I love him all the more because he pushes through it to be what he is, "A Man Born to be a Cycling Legend", yours Laz.Sorry Other, didn't mean to cause tumble weed buddy.
I've just spent all day exploring his teardrop theory, and he is right, it's just that from what I can see in his video he's headed the wrong way. The theory of a teardrop is that the heaviest end is at the front. Translated to bike speak it means " we the rider use the bike to drag us (the heavy part) through the environment." We are seated to the rear (the opposite of a teardrop). Move our bodyweight to the front and we then use the bike to propel us, not drag us, but instead drag the bikes remainder weight behind us. Later buddy, yours Laz.
I've just spent all day exploring his teardrop theory, and he is right, it's just that from what I can see in his video he's headed the wrong way. The theory of a teardrop is that the heaviest end is at the front. Translated to bike speak it means " we the rider use the bike to drag us (the heavy part) through the environment." We are seated to the rear (the opposite of a teardrop). Move our bodyweight to the front and we then use the bike to propel us, not drag us, but instead drag the bikes remainder weight behind us. Later buddy, yours Laz.
I don't think he'll beat Sam Whittinghams 83mph record, but I congratulate Obree for trying. He is a mechanical genius as well as a great cyclist. I think he might be a few years too old at 46 - 47 later in the year when he attempts it, his leg power would of declined some since his 30's. Sam was about 36 when he got the record.
It's facinating though. He's using Old Skool Reynolds 653 for the frame.
It's facinating though. He's using Old Skool Reynolds 653 for the frame.
Hi again other / lewis Well spotted on the 653, but I think the guy will have bigger issues than the type of tubing he's using my friend. At speeds of 100mph, the bike will vibrate, put excessive forces on the axles, bearings, rims, tyres, headset area, infact just about every area you can imagine. Until someone rides a bike at 100mph+ no-one is really going to know for sure where engineering & technology will meet reality.
1 of the first rules of unexplored engineering is always expect the unexpected, then over-engineer for it I for 1 have spent yet another day poring over the details of "what to expect & how to meet those undefined X factors". I find the concept of what he has said truly remarkable, and his finding/discovery is genuine genius born of a persistance to find words for what he knows he feels when riding HIS bike. I absolutely wish the guy well in his quest, but not if he needlessly wastes his life trying to "knock up a machine in his kitchen to attempt it", that is suicide. A crash on a motorcycle at 100mph hurts bigtime (ask anyone who's been there), but a crash on a bicycle at that speed is like watching Campbell trying to walk away from his 600mph boat crash. He won't be able to get booted & suited like motorbike riders thats for sure.
The guy has got traction issues, surface issues, heat issues both ambient & generated, absorbtion of stresses & strains within the bike inself, it really is a long list to compile & then check off before even trying. Like I was saying in my earlier post, "I see a man with health issues pursuing a perfectly good & grounded theory BUT without the backup or tools to get there in 1 piece. I'd love to hear from anyone reading this what they think about the "theory itself & the engineering needed to get there". I also agree that a man in his 40's is pushing it somewhat in terms of physical ability.
Here is what I've been working on for a few years (some things in theory only).
electromagnetic hubs (no bearings)
electromagnetic headsets with built in shock absorber
NON parralelogram sliding rear mech
inverse brake levers for elctromagnetic brakes (non destructive to the rims)
aerodynamic perfection of the frame (no tubes as currently used)
I guess what I'm saying is that, "even with what I've been researching & developing, his theory opens a pandoras box of new ideas needed to meet the challenge, new ideas I had until that post hitherto not given consideration to because I was confining my own ideas to "modification of adaptable parts used in the here and now". It's just not possible to design a mass market bike that can do 100mph+. My goals lay in "the ability for the novice to rack up 100mile + rides without undue training, ie: take the sting out of distance rides. I'd love your thread to pick up a head of steam because the "Obree Teardrop Theory" is very worthy of discussion amongst all types of cyclists, or maybe that's just me His dream has certainly caught my imagination, so thanks again for the great post, I had no idea that the world land speed record for a pushbike was just 82mph, well under the 100mph mark. In real terms 100mph is not high, but the technology to get there will now have to be pushed to meet that mark, and that can only be a good thing.
All the best to you both, yours Laz.
PS: electromagnetic propulsion via the hub is not as crazy as it seems, quite the opposite infact, as is equally the notion that a 60tooth top ring can be used for the same energy output as a 42. Magnets are very special
Well spotted on the 653, but I think the guy will have bigger issues than the type of tubing he's using my friend. At speeds of 100mph, the bike will vibrate, put excessive forces on the axles, bearings, rims, tyres, headset area, infact just about every area you can imagine. Until someone rides a bike at 100mph+ no-one is really going to know for sure where engineering & technology will meet reality.1 of the first rules of unexplored engineering is always expect the unexpected, then over-engineer for it
I for 1 have spent yet another day poring over the details of "what to expect & how to meet those undefined X factors". I find the concept of what he has said truly remarkable, and his finding/discovery is genuine genius born of a persistance to find words for what he knows he feels when riding HIS bike. I absolutely wish the guy well in his quest, but not if he needlessly wastes his life trying to "knock up a machine in his kitchen to attempt it", that is suicide. A crash on a motorcycle at 100mph hurts bigtime (ask anyone who's been there), but a crash on a bicycle at that speed is like watching Campbell trying to walk away from his 600mph boat crash. He won't be able to get booted & suited like motorbike riders thats for sure.The guy has got traction issues, surface issues, heat issues both ambient & generated, absorbtion of stresses & strains within the bike inself, it really is a long list to compile & then check off before even trying. Like I was saying in my earlier post, "I see a man with health issues pursuing a perfectly good & grounded theory BUT without the backup or tools to get there in 1 piece. I'd love to hear from anyone reading this what they think about the "theory itself & the engineering needed to get there". I also agree that a man in his 40's is pushing it somewhat in terms of physical ability.
Here is what I've been working on for a few years (some things in theory only).
electromagnetic hubs (no bearings)
electromagnetic headsets with built in shock absorber
NON parralelogram sliding rear mech
inverse brake levers for elctromagnetic brakes (non destructive to the rims)
aerodynamic perfection of the frame (no tubes as currently used)
I guess what I'm saying is that, "even with what I've been researching & developing, his theory opens a pandoras box of new ideas needed to meet the challenge, new ideas I had until that post hitherto not given consideration to because I was confining my own ideas to "modification of adaptable parts used in the here and now". It's just not possible to design a mass market bike that can do 100mph+. My goals lay in "the ability for the novice to rack up 100mile + rides without undue training, ie: take the sting out of distance rides. I'd love your thread to pick up a head of steam because the "Obree Teardrop Theory" is very worthy of discussion amongst all types of cyclists, or maybe that's just me
His dream has certainly caught my imagination, so thanks again for the great post, I had no idea that the world land speed record for a pushbike was just 82mph, well under the 100mph mark. In real terms 100mph is not high, but the technology to get there will now have to be pushed to meet that mark, and that can only be a good thing.All the best to you both, yours Laz.
PS: electromagnetic propulsion via the hub is not as crazy as it seems, quite the opposite infact, as is equally the notion that a 60tooth top ring can be used for the same energy output as a 42. Magnets are very special
Lazarus":3kxzyirn said:
Presumably a refined version of the old Benelux approach, where the telescoping action of a coiled spring pushed the jockey cage to the position where it was needed*? However these mechs were a bit crude and had a reputation for unreliability.
Back to Obree - there's a really good article in last week's (I think - certainly a v. recent one anyroad) edition of CW complete with pics of the part-finished machine; well worth a read and a refreshing change from the endless diet of sportive-related material they seem to print these days.
David
*Or something like that. Dad did tell me how it worked some time ago but my memory's a bit cloudy.
Old Ned
Old School Grand Master
David B":1bcsiuuz said:
It has a 'low normal' so pulls to get into a small sprocket and the spring returns the cage to the larger sprocket when the lever is moved back. There were many gears in the 30's, 40's and 50's that used this approach. The only adjustment was via the 'rod' that held the spring and it's 'coiled sheath' which screws through the main arm and is locked in position with the large nut. This means that mechs were dedicated to either 3, 4 or 5 speed depending on the length of 'rod' fitted. They work reasonably well if you're not to bothered about snappy changes.
End of history lesson and back to very interesting original thread
I really wish him luck in his attempt but my head keeps telling me that it might just be a step to far.
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