Geometry in real terms

[cherrybomb]

Re:

Good point.

The BB height on the Kona & Cotic are near identical in that photograph, yet the one has a 100mm fork & the other a 140mm

It's clear that very little has really changed though, geometry wise, since the early 90's until the advent of long travel hardtails and 29ers.

 

[Matthews]

Re:

I'll have to measure next time I've got both bikes in same place but the BB on the Kona is higher due to geom differences but the Fox forks on it seem to be longer than the rockshox on the soul even though they have less travel , got to agree that the biggest changes as to rider position and made with bars/stem though , wide riser bars and short stem give a much more modern (and comfortable to an old grumpy like me) stance , sus forks and disc brakes help with the arthritic hands/wrists/arms and back with 2 prolasped discs too , still mainly ride the soul though .
Build whatever you've got to suite yourself is my view as you've probably gathered I'm no purist (or luddite dependent upon your point of view )

 

[cherrybomb]

Re:

I've got to say that when I first went down that direction- wide bars & short stem- I thought it would make climbs more difficult, but it doesn't seem to have done. Mind you, I've not tried them on an older bike, only the Anthem & the Solaris.

 

[shinobi]

Re:

Looking at the specs the Giant came with a 63mm fork as standard !!

Paul

 

[hamster]

Knowing that grey Cindercone rather well I was thinking about it when riding the Kaboom last night.

Modern bikes with longer travel forks see a much bigger pivoting of the frame around the back axle as the front suspension compresses. Of course at the same time the weight is also coming severely onto the front wheel and the risk of going over the bars is worst. At full compression the head angle is steepest. As a result bike designers have had to move rider weight further back by a far shorter stem.

My guess is that they have also lengthened the seatstays a little to keep the weight balance right on the back wheel - but maybe that's just the fashion for bigger tyres.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

Don't think that's the reason for the short stem or steep angles as it started on full suss where that's not a problem. With the seat stays the fashion has been for shorter ones, especially with the move to bigger wheels. One of the reasons everyone is dropping front mechs is that it allows great freedom to design the rear end.

Handle bars is a strange one and gives a good insight in to how geometry evolves. BITD we didn't complain about 580mm bars, we even cut them down! When I got back in to MTB around 2005 the fashion was for around 650mm and they felt great. I hovered around that width for 6/7 years and can remember having a go on my mates bike with 700mm+ and thinking it felt ridiculous. I think I then changed to around 680mm in 2012 when I got some carbon bars, then 710mm in 2014 when I bought a new bike. Each time the change felt better but by this time my mate had gone to 780mm which once again felt daft. The other year I got some 750mm carbon bars and have just recently gone 800mm on another new bike. Guess what, they feel spot on along with the 40mm stem!

I could get back on the 650mm bike that I thought was an amazing fit and it would feel all wrong now. As for retro, it becomes tougher to go back with every width change. None of them are right or wrong, they're just what you get used to over time with the drip, drip, drip shift in geometry. Saying all that, my current long top tube, short stem, wide bar 29" full suss is amazingly comfortable! Problem is it makes most other bikes feel odd :facepalm:

 

[shinobi]

Re:

Hamster , used the Cinder Cone a fair bit but the Manitou bushes have had it now and i dont seem to ride my FSR anymore so i swopped the 100mm Fox and the discs off it onto the Kona , cant make my mind up on it tbh :facepalm:
Im actually loving the pretty stock steel 95 Cinder Cone hack i slung together a few months back !

Maybe i should leave things alone and use them as they were designed
Paul

 

[hamster]

Re: Re:

Don't think that's the reason for the short stem or steep angles as it started on full suss where that's not a problem. With the seat stays the fashion has been for shorter ones, especially with the move to bigger wheels. One of the reasons everyone is dropping front mechs is that it allows great freedom to design the rear end.

Puzzled at your remark as the Revel has longer stays and slacker angles... :?

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

Some of them do especially 29ers up until recently but manufacturers on the whole are making the rear ends shorter where they can now.

 

[shinobi]

Re:

I dont know if the angles on the Revel are a good example ? its a lower end model so maybe different to the higher end ones like the
Fire Mountain and Hahanna in the Kona range .

Paul