Geoff Apps - Cleland
- Thread starter Timberpeg
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27motorhead
Old School Grand Master
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@GrahamJohnWallace should be able to help...
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Geoff can be difficult to contact these days and doesn't want his email address shared. But if you message me here I will forward it onto Geoff and mention it to him when we next talk.
27motorhead
Old School Grand Master
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Hi Graham. I wondered if Geoff would provide details of his Kwik Spoke tool design. I’d like to try building one for use in a community bike shop.
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Hi Timberpeg, I will ask him and see if he can supply some photos or drawings of his machine.
For anyone wondering what a Geoff Apps "quick spoke tool" is, it is a machine Geoff has developed that can make a spoke of a required length from a longer spoke. It means that the wheel builders who use it no longer need to keep stocks of a spokes of various lengths.
Another advantage is that the spokes it produces can be replaced without any need to remove a freewheels, cassette or disk rotor, which is perfect for quick repairs out on the trail etc.
I can vouch for the strength of the wheels built using these spokes.
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Thanks for posting the above Flickr link. This will prove useful when I phone Geoff.
The caption with photo 10 says " You can confidently build Kwikspoked wheels that will last for years. I have one set that has been going strong for 61 years." So this is probably an old technique. Even so there still could be IP issues relating to the machine and method Geoff is using.
The machine consists of a jig to hold the spoke and a press using a second-order lever to form the end of the spoke and also cut the spoke end to length . Because of the single size hole in the jig it looks as if this machine will only work accurately with one gauge of spoke. Though the machine could be improved by using exchangeable dies for use with different spoke gauges.
I will ask Geoff whether he fabricated the prototype from scratch or modified an existing press originally intended for another purpose?
The caption with photo 10 says " You can confidently build Kwikspoked wheels that will last for years. I have one set that has been going strong for 61 years." So this is probably an old technique. Even so there still could be IP issues relating to the machine and method Geoff is using.
The machine consists of a jig to hold the spoke and a press using a second-order lever to form the end of the spoke and also cut the spoke end to length . Because of the single size hole in the jig it looks as if this machine will only work accurately with one gauge of spoke. Though the machine could be improved by using exchangeable dies for use with different spoke gauges.
I will ask Geoff whether he fabricated the prototype from scratch or modified an existing press originally intended for another purpose?
It's definitely an old technique. I remember my father doing this in the 60's, using something like the Eldi tool shown on Jim Langley's website. I've come across other pliers-type tools, but they are difficult to source and seem to be designed for one-off applications.
In our workshop we handle bikes of all kinds and ages. Keeping a wide range of spokes in stock is difficult, and we don't have a thread-rolling machine.
In our workshop we handle bikes of all kinds and ages. Keeping a wide range of spokes in stock is difficult, and we don't have a thread-rolling machine.
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Geoff was in when I phoned today. He said that the prototype of the "Kwik-Spoke" machine was fabricated from scratch by a company in the Scottish Borders after he discussed the idea with them. They made two prototypes, one that Geoff still has whilst the other one went to someone in Germany. This means that Geoff doesn't have any engineering drawings or specifications for the machine.
Geoff said that wheel-building is more difficult with "Kwik-Spokes", as unlike conventional spokes if you're not carful they can rotate and fall out. Only when enough spokes are correctly seated and tensioned does falling out become impossible.
I personally have been riding off-road on Geoff's "Kwik-Spoke" wheels for a number of years without having any issues whatsoever.
A machine like Geoff's would need to be precision made. This is because, in order to work accurately the machine needs to cut the spoke to length before the bend is formed. In Geoff's machine both processes are performed in a single action. However, if the spokes could be cut to length first, then a much simpler machine could be designed to just bend them. This could take the form of a die that could fit into a suitable hydraulic of mechanical press.
Whatever method is used the surface of the bends needs to be smooth as any creases or nicks could act as stress-raisers and so potentially lead to metal-fatigue and eventual breakage. Geoff believes that the cold forming of the bends elongates the internal structure of the steel and makes the spokes stronger.
Geoff said that wheel-building is more difficult with "Kwik-Spokes", as unlike conventional spokes if you're not carful they can rotate and fall out. Only when enough spokes are correctly seated and tensioned does falling out become impossible.
I personally have been riding off-road on Geoff's "Kwik-Spoke" wheels for a number of years without having any issues whatsoever.
A machine like Geoff's would need to be precision made. This is because, in order to work accurately the machine needs to cut the spoke to length before the bend is formed. In Geoff's machine both processes are performed in a single action. However, if the spokes could be cut to length first, then a much simpler machine could be designed to just bend them. This could take the form of a die that could fit into a suitable hydraulic of mechanical press.
Whatever method is used the surface of the bends needs to be smooth as any creases or nicks could act as stress-raisers and so potentially lead to metal-fatigue and eventual breakage. Geoff believes that the cold forming of the bends elongates the internal structure of the steel and makes the spokes stronger.
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