Forward facing dropouts and mudguards. Always a pain?

[Ugo51]

Hello everyone,

let's see if my English allows me to express my question.
In a bike with forward facing dropouts, is it always a problem taking the rear wheel on and off because it would interfere with the mudguards?
On a modern bike, the wheel comes off with a downward motion.
In a vintage bike, one has to push the wheel forward to clear the dropouts, and unless the mudguard is fitted in a way to leave a lot of room from the tire...the only solution is to deflate the tire every time.
Am I making sense?
Maybe I could alleviate the problem by using spacers in the dropouts? I used to have them in the old Peugeot. I always wondered what they were for...

All this because I am considering buying a new frame to make a commuter, but the thought of having to deflate the tire in order to take the wheel off irks me (I'm lazy, I know)

 

[non-fixie]

Yes, you are making sense. I very much recognize the problem..

If you have enough room, i.e. long enough chain stays, there's this solution from Velo Orange, called the "thingy", I believe. It allows the front part of the mudguard to move forward by compressing the spring, which will allow the wheel to move further forward.



EDIT: it is called the Spring Thing.

Another solution is to leave enough room between tyre and mudguard. This wheel will pop out without a problem:

 

[Jonny69]

As I understand it, in the olden days almost all bikes had rearward-facing dropouts. The forward-facing ones came about so that you could get the wheel in and out with mudguards on! If it's tight or too tight, it's more down to the fact that you have well-fitting or close-fitting mudguards.

 

[non-fixie]

(...) If it's tight or too tight, it's more down to the fact that you have well-fitting or close-fitting mudguards.

... and - like me - you're vain and feel that on some bikes a nice tight 'fender line' is important.

On a more serious note: if you want to fit mudguards on a racing machine you'll have to be prepared to have to let some air out of the tyre before you can remove the rear wheel. Not a biggie, IME, as in most cases the tyre is already flat.

However, you do need to remember to not pump up the tyre before refitting the wheel. Tried that, didn't work.

I bought this Van Tuyl frame partly because it has mudguard eyelets, thinking it would make a nice winter bike. As it turned out the frame is too short for any normal mudguards to fit. I had to resort to these fag paper thin aluminium strips. The forward end of the rear 'guard is actually taped to the seat tube, as I couldn't get it to work otherwise.

And the tyres are 25mm Vittorias, which in real life measure not much wider than 23mm:

 

[Ugo51]

Yes, you are making sense. I very much recognize the problem..

If you have enough room, i.e. long enough chain stays, there's this solution from Velo Orange, called the "thingy",

[...]

EDIT: it is called the Spring Thing.

Haha, I thought you were joking when you called it the "thingy"!

Yes, this could work. Although, given it's Velo Orange, that thingy will probably cost as much as the set of mudguards!

Anyway, glad I was making sense and I feel "seen" when you say that a nice fender line is important. For me, mostly, is important that the distance between the tire and the fender is constant along the whole length of the fender.

But between using the dropout spacer and the thingy option, maybe I can risk it and get a vintage frame and try to fit the mudguards.

 

[Ugo51]

Yes, I had a similar problem with a Forme frame...I ended up selling it as I specifically wanted a winter bike.

Also, what size is that frame?? The headtube looks almost as long as the seat tube of my bike

 

[bikeworkshop]

A touring bike can easily afford enough room to allow the ride to remove or refit the wheel with guards
but on a racy machine you want shorter stays and less tyre clearance(shallow drop brakes work better) so there will be interference.

I don't remember anyone who couldn't live with it if they wanted to mount Guards on a short stayed frame, and we've seen 30 bikes a day for 30 years

As @non-fixie says, it's flat already if you're punctured, so removal is easy.
Then you put a few psi in it after repair and leave it soft enough to deform, and in it goes.
Then up to pressure.

A fully inflated tyre (at max size) often won't fit between the brake blocks fully inflated, so you just get used to this.

It's a bit annoying if you're just chucking the bike in the car to get somewhere for a ride and want to make it a bit smaller without the wheels, but if you throw a track pump in the boot, it's 30 seconds work.

 

[Ugo51]

The issue isn't really the length of the stays, but the fact that if I fit the mudguard close enough to the wheel, then I necessarily cannot push the wheel forward when I want to take it off.
A solution could be leaving enough clearance between tire and mudguard, but no matter how much space I have in front of the wheel, I am limited by the clearance at the brake caliper.
I could leave more space in front, the mudguards are quite flexible, but that's just ugly

And yes, of course I can deflate the tire. But it is annoying, and if there was a solution to not do that, I'd take it.
Sounds like I can either get an old frame and experiment with it, or take the easy route and get a frame with modern dropouts and be done with it.

Mh...decisions, decisions, decisions