Fixing a Victorian

[Nabeaquam]

I'll scroll back through this thread later.....there's a great pic of your handsome Vic next to a lake...I'll measure off the screen

That’s Lake Superior. Let me know what you get. I’m currently working on a late 1950s Columbia. Trying to get a few projects done before winter. I just cut a trailer full of firewood, I’m sweaty and achy so I’m drinking coffee and staring off into space, pretty vacuumed out. I have a tribal firewood cutting permit, I can cut 3 cords of wood at no charge on federal land with it but they have to be dead. Dead is good, already seasoned for burning. My wife helps me stack it.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

That’s Lake Superior. Let me know what you get. I’m currently working on a late 1950s Columbia. Trying to get a few projects done before winter. I just cut a trailer full of firewood, I’m sweaty and achy so I’m drinking coffee and staring off into space, pretty vacuumed out. I have a tribal firewood cutting permit, I can cut 3 cords of wood at no charge on federal land with it but they have to be dead. Dead is good, already seasoned for burning. My wife helps me stack it.

That's quite a bit of firewood! Just had to Google a cord....not a measure I've heard before...used to do logging here and we'd do it as a cubic yard.
That's 14 cubic yards that's got to be a few months burning for you!?

 

[Nabeaquam]

That's quite a bit of firewood! Just had to Google a cord....not a measure I've heard before...used to do logging here and we'd do it as a cubic yard.
That's 14 cubic yards that's got to be a few months burning for you!?

I burn from the end of November until sometime in May. We burn earlier and later intermittently if it gets cold enough, usually just a few days. Then we burn all day and let the fire die at night, otherwise it gets too hot. At night we turn the heat up to 10-15C, depending on the outside temperature and wind. In the AM the heat is turned off first thing and the fire starts. We usually burn 2.5 cords a year. I think cord measures is a USA thing, I don’t think Canadians use it much now, they probably use cubic meters. Currently my friend and I are stacking logs he gave me when he cleared a little land. We are both 76 so we only work two hours a day. There are enough pine logs to get 2000 board feet of lumber. We are having a portable sawmill come in to cut, we will roll on the logs and stack the lumber.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I remember once in our log yard we had a competition between two of us on log splitters and tractor powered saws against the old hairy buggers with axes and chainsaws.....who had the biggest pile at the end of week......old hairy buggers pile was about 10 foot higher ! And they buggered off at lunch for a fair few beers
Shameful!

 

[Woz]

Daddy - The Victorian machine of mechanical and bodily torture.

Tried to do some research about positions back then and it's virtually impossible to find anything on this subject. The still camera and photo developing is still in it's infancy (Kodak roll film in 1889). When there is a picture, more often than not the rider isn't even sitting on the bike, presumably due to the long exposure time to keep still in a professional studio with a large format camera.

There are a handful of line drawings or painted pictures but human proportions are often mis-represented.

Most of the documentation is about the bike technology itself. I don't know, but probably at this time there were weird social sporty protocols of what was proper and taboo (eg. was it the done thing to ride off the saddle and have ones arse sticking up in the air? ) and there was probably all sorts of weird pseudo science in bike position.

I can't get my head around it - logic would say for a track bike you could put up with an uncomfortable position, but we already established early on the US pro track racers were riding to exhaustion for long periods being more like a circus act and the track being open day and night.
@Nabeaquam - that photo you found with a good side profile is the best I have seen.

Don't really see a solution to your too cramped position. Perhaps turning the seat-post around is at least worth a try (and like you say it does appear that was something done back then), or see if there were any longer stems and bars with more reach at the expense of loosing an original interesting part. Can't ever see this approaching a "normal" road position - it's just such a different beast.

Here is my own psudo-science attempt. The photo was "levelled" and I added various lines which I thought are of interest.

Head angle with a protractor on the screen gives about 65 degrees.



[ now off to send my CV to Sir David Brailsford ; I'm sure he will want me on his pay roll ]

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Daddy - The Victorian machine of mechanical and bodily torture.

Tried to do some research about positions back then and it's virtually impossible to find anything on this subject. The still camera and photo developing is still in it's infancy (Kodak roll film in 1889). When there is a picture, more often than not the rider isn't even sitting on the bike, presumably due to the long exposure time to keep still in a professional studio with a large format camera.

There are a handful of line drawings or painted pictures but human proportions are often mis-represented.

Most of the documentation is about the bike technology itself. I don't know, but probably at this time there were weird social sporty protocols of what was proper and taboo (eg. was it the done thing to ride off the saddle and have ones arse sticking up in the air? ) and there was probably all sorts of weird pseudo science in bike position.

I can't get my head around it - logic would say for a track bike you could put up with an uncomfortable position, but we already established early on the US pro track racers were riding to exhaustion for long periods being more like a circus act and the track being open day and night.
@Nabeaquam - that photo you found with a good side profile is the best I have seen.

Don't really see a solution to your too cramped position. Perhaps turning the seat-post around is at least worth a try (and like you say it does appear that was something done back then), or see if there were any longer stems and bars with more reach at the expense of loosing an original interesting part. Can't ever see this approaching a "normal" road position - it's just such a different beast.

Here is my own psudo-science attempt. The photo was "levelled" and I added various lines which I thought are of interest.

Head angle with a protractor on the screen gives about 65 degrees.

View attachment 656272

[ now off to send my CV to Sir David Brailsford ; I'm sure he will want me on his pay roll ]

Uh oh...woz has got his laser beams out again
Is it possible that image is actually level? I mean photographer probable took time setting up in a studio for that shot...the wheels are most likely in stands.......possible that it has different size wheels front and back? Original photo kinda maybe on my screen shows both hubs!

 

[Woz]

Here is the build, photo flipped to help comparison - I say rotate that seat-post, gallows rear facing

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Here is the build, photo flipped to help comparison - I say rotate that seat-post, gallows rear facing

View attachment 656299

I'm getting 68 degree headtube from that pic...howsabout you woz....I know your reaching for that protractor...

 

[Woz]

Uh oh...woz has got his laser beams out again
Is it possible that image is actually level? I mean photographer probable took time setting up in a studio for that shot...the wheels are most likely in stands.......possible that it has different size wheels front and back? Original photo kinda maybe on my screen shows both hubs!

Oh bugger. What happened there? Looks like the crap program I used auto cropped the picture to a standard size.

You are right. Hubs are in the original and it looks like there is some sort of stand in front of the pedal at top dead centre, also looks like is shoe is held in position too. I doubt the wheels are different sizes. Think I would be inclined to trust the photographer about getting the important vertical plane correct to help everything to be in the fame focal distance. There may be camera lens aberrations and some camera movements which could influence the "squareness" of the image. It's a fine image IMHO, the real deal, the top left hand suggests it was taken on a glass plate.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Oh bugger. What happened there? Looks like the crap program I used auto cropped the picture to a standard size.

You are right. Hubs are in the original and it looks like there is some sort of stand in front of the pedal at top dead centre, also looks like is shoe is held in position too. I doubt the wheels are different sizes. Think I would be inclined to trust the photographer about getting the important vertical plane correct to help everything to be in the fame focal distance. There may be camera lens aberrations and some camera movements which could influence the "squareness" of the image. It's a fine image IMHO, the real deal, the top left hand suggests it was taken on a glass plate.

Odd maybe there is some kind of distortion in the photo or maybe because it's a photo of a photo! Hubs are level but tops of tyres aren't ?!

Brailsford might be reconsidering your t boy job