Fat Chance Kickstarter

[ez054098]

Re: Re:

Some harsh but fair words from a tough crowd on RB

He used family money to start BITD and not his own, and then he sold out in the very early 90s before the others for a very tidy Sum. How did he not make a killing....?

Like you, I have read a lot from various sources on FCC etc Tbh I don't know where you get the intel that he made a 'killing' from selling out. How much are we talking about here ? The Internet is the best rumour mill ever invented That's why people have to be guarded and respectful to all parties historically involved in commercial relationships, no matter how long ago. Pistonheads has a great policy on this.

Generally people get royally screwed over by large predators, as they are in such a weak negotiating position in those situations. I have had enough dealings with VCs and VCTs to know that :facepalm:

Im all for wanting to see an old brand back, in favour of high priced Chinese carbon for sure, but I am a realist.

The design and high standard isn't why there is a legacy, (Christ most of the steel here rotted from the inside out...(FACT)...), his legacy is Clever marketing, And in this respect the guys a bloody genius

Agree with his marketing genius. I have a nice collection of his brochures and he was way ahead of the pack and much copied by others in the industry at the time. I don't know the exact % of rotted steel frames but assuming 18000 of the ~ 20000 frames he ever built were steel, I have only seen maybe ~ 10 replacement seat tube threads on here and Fatcogs/other site retro threads + ~ 5 people loosely stating they junked their steel Fat frame or rode it into the ground as it was beyond repair.

It seems so many want to see him fail miserably, embarrass himself etc. I don't see his business as a failure at all. I frickin love my Fat collection. They all ride so well but differently. I owned and had access to most of the best bikes bitd and well his bikes have 'it' and still do.

I'm personally not a fan of maliciously slating other brands or peoples bikes. If somebody really loves their Raleigh Maverick...whatever....good for them. That being said winding people up and controversy does increase site traffic, so its all good

Well said. No need to make assumptions and treat them as fact. Judge the final product.

 

[sinnerman]

Re: Re:

Some harsh but fair words from a tough crowd on RB

He used family money to start BITD and not his own, and then he sold out in the very early 90s before the others for a very tidy Sum. How did he not make a killing....?

Like you, I have read a lot from various sources on FCC etc Tbh I don't know where you get the intel that he made a 'killing' from selling out. How much are we talking about here ? The Internet is the best rumour mill ever invented That's why people have to be guarded and respectful to all parties historically involved in commercial relationships, no matter how long ago. Pistonheads has a great policy on this.

Generally people get royally screwed over by large predators, as they are in such a weak negotiating position in those situations. I have had enough dealings with VCs and VCTs to know that :facepalm:

Im all for wanting to see an old brand back, in favour of high priced Chinese carbon for sure, but I am a realist.

The design and high standard isn't why there is a legacy, (Christ most of the steel here rotted from the inside out...(FACT)...), his legacy is Clever marketing, And in this respect the guys a bloody genius

Agree with his marketing genius. I have a nice collection of his brochures and he was way ahead of the pack and much copied by others in the industry at the time. I don't know the exact % of rotted steel frames but assuming 18000 of the ~ 20000 frames he ever built were steel, I have only seen maybe ~ 10 replacement seat tube threads on here and Fatcogs/other site retro threads + ~ 5 people loosely stating they junked their steel Fat frame or rode it into the ground as it was beyond repair.

It seems so many want to see him fail miserably, embarrass himself etc. I don't see his business as a failure at all. I frickin love my Fat collection. They all ride so well but differently. I owned and had access to most of the best bikes bitd and well his bikes have 'it' and still do.

I'm personally not a fan of maliciously slating other brands or peoples bikes. If somebody really loves their Raleigh Maverick...whatever....good for them. That being said winding people up and controversy does increase site traffic, so its all good

To be fair, Given you said you managed a chain of 6 London Bike shops BITD, im shocked by some statements.

I don't think the internet was in full swing or cause for a rumour mill bitd (late 80s here in uk early 90s when brand was sold) when ref was made to him selling the company, or when it was funded how or by whom or sold for X in Printed press. Unsure what the internet had to do with it at the time. (scratches head). Sorry My bad, I thought this was common Knowledge back then. (regardless of whether you and I were heavily in the bicycle trade or whether we chose to ride a fat or a Bontrager))

As for the frame numbers you quoted, the brand name sold 18 to 20,000 not Chris Chance. (please remember he sold out once).

I don't think its any secret at all, that buyers are fully aware to check for Rust and rot in early frames, do you.? Honestly?

I don't think its any secret you are a total Fat Chance fan either. I think your posts make that clear, but for some I think the marketing has played a great part in choices some have made, and clearly still does, whilst for other kickstarter customers...... it has nothing to do with it.

 

[sinnerman]

to further add to your points..,

I think only when you can ride two similar bikes, with close build specs, at similar price points side by side can you have a Truly Objective Opinion (believe me ive tried see links below, it isn't an easy task for anyone.)

This is Something I personally knew the late Steve Worland Fought to improve with his Bike testing.

There is No need to slate a brand Just be Objective.

 

[M-Power]

Re:

My ref to the Internet is in relation to modern 21st C analysis of historical events. We should check for rust issues hiding in any steel bike which sees regular use in inclement weather. Use anti corrosive coating internally etc. Its nothing unique to Fats. Plenty of 20+ yr old Yos still hammering the trails with their original tubing intact.

Totally agree with the objective testing process and I was also a big fan of Steve Worland RIP. I'm probably autistic in my tendency to obsess over something. There are a few of us on here I think I am the same with Tour Issue golf equipment, Miura forged irons , SST puring and blue printed builds. Fuxx I need help :shock: I look forward to hooking up for a ride and pint sometime Sinnerman. Yes I will be riding an old Fat but please bring the Zinn 753

Chin chin

 

[sinnerman]

Re: Re:

My ref to the Internet is in relation to modern 21st C analysis of historical events. We should check for rust issues hiding in any steel bike which sees regular use in inclement weather. Use anti corrosive coating internally etc. Its nothing unique to Fats. Plenty of 20+ yr old Yos still hammering the trails with their original tubing intact.

Totally agree with the objective testing process and I was also a big fan of Steve Worland RIP. I'm probably autistic in my tendency to obsess over something. There are a few of us on here I think I am the same with Tour Issue golf equipment, Miura forged irons , SST puring and blue printed builds. Fuxx I need help :shock: I look forward to hooking up for a ride and pint sometime Sinnerman. Yes I will be riding an old Fat but please bring the Zinn 753

Chin chin

My analysis was not.

Will, we shall ride, and we shall take a Bontrager and a Fat, that is a far closer comparison.

And FWIW, some brands sold due to there advertising and some needed None at all. (fat chance/ Bontrager)

The rest as they say is History.

 

[M-Power]

Re: Re:

My ref to the Internet is in relation to modern 21st C analysis of historical events. We should check for rust issues hiding in any steel bike which sees regular use in inclement weather. Use anti corrosive coating internally etc. Its nothing unique to Fats. Plenty of 20+ yr old Yos still hammering the trails with their original tubing intact.

Totally agree with the objective testing process and I was also a big fan of Steve Worland RIP. I'm probably autistic in my tendency to obsess over something. There are a few of us on here I think I am the same with Tour Issue golf equipment, Miura forged irons , SST puring and blue printed builds. Fuxx I need help :shock: I look forward to hooking up for a ride and pint sometime Sinnerman. Yes I will be riding an old Fat but please bring the Zinn 753

Chin chin

My analysis was not.

Will, we shall ride, and we shall take a Bontrager and a Fat, that is a far closer comparison.

And FWIW, some brands sold due to there advertising and some needed None at all. (fat chance/ Bontrager)

The rest as they say is History.

Look forward to it

Let's hope Chris can hit the mark again with the design of these new Fats at NAHBS.

 

[brocklanders023]

My 2 cents

Vassago Verhauen has 29" wheels, True Temper OX Platinum tubeset, nice trail geo, space for wide tires, stainless steel horizontal dropouts, sliding 142, stainless steel seattube insert, 44/44mm headtube, nice transparent paintjob. Made by Zen and priced sensibly @ $1100.
http://www.vassagocycles.com/verhauen/

Yo: Basically the same, except vertical dropouts, which are not as modern. Will it have stainless inserts? Frame manufacturing is outsourced, not unlikely to the same Zen. Priced @ $2500.

Conclusion: overpriced.

Never heard of them, have heard of Fat. If they had the rep they would try to sell for the same although I agree that the £2500 figure is not the price of a future production frame.

They are right up there with BTR.

Yep, and I'd not heard of them either until recently. Same rules apply, if they could they would charge more but very few know who they are atm.

 

[suburbanreuben]

Never heard of them, have heard of Fat. If they had the rep they would try to sell for the same although I agree that the £2500 figure is not the price of a future production frame.

They are right up there with BTR.

Yep, and I'd not heard of them either until recently. Same rules apply, if they could they would charge more but very few know who they are atm.

Though for $2000 or less one could get a custom built Soulcraft or Independent Fabrications, or a frame from any number of small steel builders of high repute.

Same rules apply, if they could they would charge more but theres a limited market for high end steel frames when carbon is stronger, lighter, cheaper, etc, etc...

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

I'd class a new Fat in the same class as IF and expect the production frames, without fancy stickers or parties, to come in cheaper. Probably around IF price?

 

[suburbanreuben]

Re: Re:

I'd class a new Fat in the same class as IF and expect the production frames, without fancy stickers or parties, to come in cheaper. Probably around IF price?

If they're going to be made by Ventana I'd certainly hope they'd be a cut above IF...