Fat Chance Kickstarter
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Re: Re:
Technically that's not true. There are very strict guidelines around what can bear the label "Made in the USA", typically a product has to be more than 75% sourced from US and largely transformed in the US. So, don't think we'll be seeing any Chinese made bikes here
pete_mcc":2iev915p said:
Technically that's not true. There are very strict guidelines around what can bear the label "Made in the USA", typically a product has to be more than 75% sourced from US and largely transformed in the US. So, don't think we'll be seeing any Chinese made bikes here
Re:
I'm somewhat surprised by the generally negative vibe of this thread.
Loads of people on here in the past have commented on how they wished that FC would return, how they'd love a modern Yo Eddy 27.5/29er, blah, blah, blah...Time to dig deep then Fat fans to get the marque up and running again. There were never going to be many takers for the $5k or $6k packages but over here in the UK, an IF Deluxe is $2300...so the $2.5k frame package isn't wildly out. So far Chris has pledges for 21 frames so 3-4 a month to build so far, do we think he could manage that?
Oh yeah, just noticed he's got a booth at NAHBS so I don't think that they'll be Chinese built frames with stickers on Pete.
http://www.2015.handmadebicycleshow.com/exhibitors/
http://fatchancebicycles.com/kickstarter-questions/
I'm somewhat surprised by the generally negative vibe of this thread.
Loads of people on here in the past have commented on how they wished that FC would return, how they'd love a modern Yo Eddy 27.5/29er, blah, blah, blah...Time to dig deep then Fat fans to get the marque up and running again. There were never going to be many takers for the $5k or $6k packages but over here in the UK, an IF Deluxe is $2300...so the $2.5k frame package isn't wildly out. So far Chris has pledges for 21 frames so 3-4 a month to build so far, do we think he could manage that?
Oh yeah, just noticed he's got a booth at NAHBS so I don't think that they'll be Chinese built frames with stickers on Pete.
http://www.2015.handmadebicycleshow.com/exhibitors/
http://fatchancebicycles.com/kickstarter-questions/
mrkawasaki
Retrobike Rider
It is illuminating reading the opinions sparked by this project. For the lifetime of the forum, this nostalgia-filled flotation tank has been a pretty large non-cycling pastime in itself - we have ridden literally on giants shoulders, extracting yet more value out of those few that kickstarted this whole mountainbike thing around the western world. It seems churlish that such a stalwart and pioneer should be questioned in negative tones rather than waiting for the end product. It's like some Government enquiry as though we now own that whole history. The fact is, when we were excited, expectant consumers bitd we knew jack-shit about the bike business/bike building (other than what the magazines told us) - we were deleriously happy to surf the waves those boys made for us whilst we went about kicking tyre after tyre. If we had been similarly negative then and those pioneers had said 'hey, guess what... you're right' what would be in our sheds now?
The Fat Chance marketing aura (like Klein) was an innovation in itself within the fledgling industry and to a certain extent that is what is being offered here to people who responded to it first time around. Like I say, people who enjoyed buying these brands then were buying more/less bike but guaranteed was a whole lot of attitude and differentiation that owners craved and were prepared to pay/wait for. Whether Chance or Klein were marketing genii or not isn't relevant - they inadvertently or otherwise created an enthusiastic base that was way more than the metal. People became aspirational fans without even getting to see, buy or ride those bikes and to them, that is a value in itself.
One could go on to argue that Chris Chance is perhaps asking people to pay for the very experience as you go along this time. There is certainly no £££ value/metal argument to potential owners as has been said - then and now - any more than, say, an Eagle E-Type.
Ultimately it's Chris' intellectual property so surely he's every right to go again (and even 'fail' if he wants to). I wouldn't feel the same if the brand had been sold/re-inflated by Trek though! I'm not a Fat Chance fan then or now - but I applaud and support his right to have another go and use anything he feels relevant from a past he created.
The Fat Chance marketing aura (like Klein) was an innovation in itself within the fledgling industry and to a certain extent that is what is being offered here to people who responded to it first time around. Like I say, people who enjoyed buying these brands then were buying more/less bike but guaranteed was a whole lot of attitude and differentiation that owners craved and were prepared to pay/wait for. Whether Chance or Klein were marketing genii or not isn't relevant - they inadvertently or otherwise created an enthusiastic base that was way more than the metal. People became aspirational fans without even getting to see, buy or ride those bikes and to them, that is a value in itself.
One could go on to argue that Chris Chance is perhaps asking people to pay for the very experience as you go along this time. There is certainly no £££ value/metal argument to potential owners as has been said - then and now - any more than, say, an Eagle E-Type.
Ultimately it's Chris' intellectual property so surely he's every right to go again (and even 'fail' if he wants to). I wouldn't feel the same if the brand had been sold/re-inflated by Trek though! I'm not a Fat Chance fan then or now - but I applaud and support his right to have another go and use anything he feels relevant from a past he created.
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Have to say I am also surprised by the negative posts here.
My view, it's brilliant he's back in the trade, brilliant that he's going via kick starter as opposed to selling a portion of the business to a big backer, this way he keeps control (but also risks the fail potential, I respect this as I am thinking of starting a business)
People are questioning his skill here and also his ability to build enough frames in time, I'm gonna be honest here, if I could afford one I probably would order one, its gonna be a nice frame regardless of who builds it, him or a sub contracted builder, are most buyers buying the frame because of his history? Probably.
I'd buy it because I'm sure it would be good, and also because I think it would be really cool to have a limited edition frame, it would be pretty individual, I bet the paint scheme would be cool aswel.
Also I freely admit I bought my 2007 limited edition clockwork because it was the true meaning if retro, something new made to look like something old, with regards to what he is selling here I don't think he's doing anything different albeit for more money for the product.
Personally I wish him well and I hope it succeeds, also just to shut up the naysayers.
Have to say I am also surprised by the negative posts here.
My view, it's brilliant he's back in the trade, brilliant that he's going via kick starter as opposed to selling a portion of the business to a big backer, this way he keeps control (but also risks the fail potential, I respect this as I am thinking of starting a business)
People are questioning his skill here and also his ability to build enough frames in time, I'm gonna be honest here, if I could afford one I probably would order one, its gonna be a nice frame regardless of who builds it, him or a sub contracted builder, are most buyers buying the frame because of his history? Probably.
I'd buy it because I'm sure it would be good, and also because I think it would be really cool to have a limited edition frame, it would be pretty individual, I bet the paint scheme would be cool aswel.
Also I freely admit I bought my 2007 limited edition clockwork because it was the true meaning if retro, something new made to look like something old, with regards to what he is selling here I don't think he's doing anything different albeit for more money for the product.
Personally I wish him well and I hope it succeeds, also just to shut up the naysayers.
Re:
I see no reason why it wont work, Hype sold the First time and it will do it this time.
I dont see any negative in this thread, or any thread around the internet, every comment adds weight to the Propaganda machine.
Its what he wants, and it will work, of that I have no doubt.
I see no reason why it wont work, Hype sold the First time and it will do it this time.
I dont see any negative in this thread, or any thread around the internet, every comment adds weight to the Propaganda machine.
Its what he wants, and it will work, of that I have no doubt.
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shogun":2e4ql6lm said:
I'm definitely not buying one. Too pricey with some flimsy details for me.
But anyway, he's raised almost all the money and has only sold 21 frames so far. The total number of frames he's going to have to make in the 8-odd months is 30-40. Maybe 50 if there's a mad rush at the end (which I doubt). So it's definitely do-able. Especially in standard sizing.
Sure, if 250 people bought he'd have to come up with some other plan but I don't think he was ever expecting to sell that many frames at that price through the kickstarter.
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If that's the case then considering the extras package is $250 then the Fat is cheaper then the IF. If this works and they start proper production I assume the 'standard' frames will be cheaper then $2500.
Doesn't seem too bad to me.
mr_ship":1s4pj2d0 said:
If that's the case then considering the extras package is $250 then the Fat is cheaper then the IF. If this works and they start proper production I assume the 'standard' frames will be cheaper then $2500.
Doesn't seem too bad to me.
suburbanreuben
Old School Grand Master
highlandsflyer":1qmjshpi said:
He's not Dali.
Re: Re:
Sadly you are wrong, the 75% relates to manufacturing costs not to sourcing:
75% U.S. CONTENT SAFE HARBOR
It will not be considered a deceptive practice for a marketer to make an unqualified U.S. origin claim if, at the time it makes the claim, the marketer possesses and relies upon competent and reliable evidence that: (1) U.S. manufacturing costs constitute 75% of the total manufacturing costs for the product; and (2) the product was last substantially transformed in the United States.
http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-re ... usa-claims
So you buy a Taiwanese frame at $25 a unit, import and then spray in the US and finish at $75 and you are then able to call it "Made in the USA"
But that wasn't the point I was making, I wasn't suggesting that CC was getting them made in China, I was relating that fact to CC having them built by other US builders and then calling it his own as long as he painted/finished them himself.
All that aside I can't believe that people are truly surprised at the negativity. I don't think anyone is saying it's not great that CC is back but they are surprised that he's expecting people to fork out money without knowing the builder, seeing the spec, knowing the angles etc. Yes, he was once an influential builder but that was 15 years back and since then a lot of water has passed.
Are people really saying they are happy to buy an untested, unproved, unquantified frame just because his name is on it? Are we really that sycophantic that sense flies out the window because he was one of the early pioneers? And what is brave about getting people to cover all your costs before you commit to doing anything, there's no bravery there.
Personally I think it's great he's back but this relaunch really is lame. Maybe he would benefit from getting some outside help rather than trying to go it alone?
Oh and an IF deluxe costs £1495 fully imported with all duty paid, at $2500 with shipping costs at $100 this would cost a total of £2150 fully imported with all duty paid
mkozaczek":2tf9t325 said:
Sadly you are wrong, the 75% relates to manufacturing costs not to sourcing:
75% U.S. CONTENT SAFE HARBOR
It will not be considered a deceptive practice for a marketer to make an unqualified U.S. origin claim if, at the time it makes the claim, the marketer possesses and relies upon competent and reliable evidence that: (1) U.S. manufacturing costs constitute 75% of the total manufacturing costs for the product; and (2) the product was last substantially transformed in the United States.
http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-re ... usa-claims
So you buy a Taiwanese frame at $25 a unit, import and then spray in the US and finish at $75 and you are then able to call it "Made in the USA"
But that wasn't the point I was making, I wasn't suggesting that CC was getting them made in China, I was relating that fact to CC having them built by other US builders and then calling it his own as long as he painted/finished them himself.
All that aside I can't believe that people are truly surprised at the negativity. I don't think anyone is saying it's not great that CC is back but they are surprised that he's expecting people to fork out money without knowing the builder, seeing the spec, knowing the angles etc. Yes, he was once an influential builder but that was 15 years back and since then a lot of water has passed.
Are people really saying they are happy to buy an untested, unproved, unquantified frame just because his name is on it? Are we really that sycophantic that sense flies out the window because he was one of the early pioneers? And what is brave about getting people to cover all your costs before you commit to doing anything, there's no bravery there.
Personally I think it's great he's back but this relaunch really is lame. Maybe he would benefit from getting some outside help rather than trying to go it alone?
Oh and an IF deluxe costs £1495 fully imported with all duty paid, at $2500 with shipping costs at $100 this would cost a total of £2150 fully imported with all duty paid
