F H GRUBB FRAME DECALS

[VeloFellow54]

Thanks sdp2112, I know that Nick at Lloyds originated a script down tube decal copied from the design on the front of the 1950 catalogue (I believe this was at the behest of Hilary Stone) but am by no means certain that this design was actually correct for a frame decal. The reason that this has come about is due to my recently acquiring a Grubb Perfection frame that still has original decals (albeit in a poor state) and the down tube decal is unlike any that I have seen. I am trying to get this reproduced accurately and will ask Steve Ford at Lloyds to create it for me - but only once I am satisfied that it is correct. What we really need is to see a frame with original decals in the same style. So - photos of the frame decals on your pre '52 Grubb machines would be a great help !

 

[VeloFellow54]

Thanks COUPS for posting the images of the Grubb machine. Have to admit that I am jealous - it is a very nice machine. I suspect that this is immediately pre-war in date, but I may be wrong. Grubb started frame numbering from number 1 (we think) after the company 're started' in early 1935. Production would have ceased during the war years although some materials were probably in stock to build frames into 1940. Immediately post war, lugs were in short supply and many makers make up fork crowns themselves.
I am not an expert in this area - so I could very well be wrong though. It would be interesting to establish when the 'Bonderising' system / decal was first used. This may provide a clue.

 

[VeloFellow54]

Grubb Downtube Decal

I have attached an image of the down tube decal from my 1950 Grubb Perfection frame. This was a waterslide decal and i believe it to be original to the frame. This is because the frame has the 2 colour (red / gold) check seat tube panel (advertised by Grubb in the 1950 catalogue), elaborate spearpoint lining in red /gold, and the correct period Reynolds decal at the top of the seat tube also. At first glance it appears the same as the decal supplied by Lloyds but upon examination it is clearly different.

 

[GrubbyJohn]

Thats a great frame, I have seen a similar hand painted downtube logo before.
I am trying to establish when the serial number location changed from head tube to bottom bracket.
There are some notes in the VCC archives suggesting that Grubb staff started a new numbering system after Mr Grubbs death in May 1949, although no evidence given.
This would suggest that your frame is 1948/49,maybe the last one before he died, in fact there is an entry in the archive with your serial number 2144 giving the date as 48/49, I would tend to agree with that estimate

 

[sdp2112]

VeloFellow54. It hadn't occurred to me that the dt decals from Hlloyd were made up, just a copy of the catalogue logo but I'm beginning to think you may be correct. A shame as I'll have to have some of my frames re-finished. In the circa 1950 catalogue some frames are illustrated with 'FREDDIE GRUBB' but at least one has a very indistinct shape which looks like the script with underline except that it has an extra blob bottom right, yours would fit that shape. Did I see that frame in Diss a few months ago while collecting some wheels? Very nice find. Please let me know how the new decals go, I have two Grubbs that need painting and will wait until these new decals are available.

 

[VeloFellow54]

sdp2112 - Indeed it was my frame that you will have seen in Diss. Small world ! I was very lucky to get hold of many of the original parts also so I know what should be on the frame. I asked Mick to remove the Gnutti BB for me as it was causing me some problems. A little work on the frame has also revealed a very complex pattern of box lining along with the original check panel on the seat tube. Plan is to restore as close as I can to the original. There must be other frames out there somewhere with the same dt decal. I would like to see a photo of one just to confirm that it is correct. Once I have the design copied correctly I will supply it to H Lloyd and the V-C C. I will also post it on this forum when done, although it may be some time before I get to it.
I note that you have a number of 'pre Holdsworth' Grubb machines. I am sure that the marque enthusiast would like details for the records even if only model and frame number.

 

[GrubbyJohn]

Re: F H Grubb Cycles

As the Grubb marque enthusiast for the VCC I am trying to fill in some gaps in the popular Kilgarif website.
The period of transition between FHGrubb and early Holdsworth Grubb's is particularly interesting . We have a lot of catalogues but there seems to be sometimes a loose connection between actual machines and what is in print.
The key thing I think is actual photos of unrestored frames, including serial number and any provenance documentation. I would welcome any information out there so it can be collated , and help with understanding and as a reference source

 

[COUPES]

Re:

Thankyou GrubbyJohn. Were the serial numbers stamped on the top headtube lug, late 40s? Mine has the serial number stamped on the back of the forks also. I believe I emailed you a year or so ago. Also blue on the brass headbadge where I have seen black. Maybe after Fred died?

Simon.

 

[COUPES]

Re:

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[COUPES]

Re:

I think this is 53. Not seen lugs like these before with stars or diamonds in them.