Explain headsets please

[Midlife]

Had a search tonight on Campag contemporaries.......Zeus, Gipiemme, Omas, Shimano. They are just as expensive as Campag and in some cases cost more. The only reasonable Campag one is a Gran Sport in the states curently at 14 dollars.

Nothing Shabby about Tange stuff, I only remember the Falcon as it was the one we used at the time. 3Rensho use a lot of Tange kit at the time but not a lot came to our shores back then.

Shaun

 

[FINNEY1973]

It's a minefield Shaun, so few for sale that are a) at a good price b) period correct.

I too had a 'general search' using "70's" under cycling on ebay - does bring up some ok stuff but a lot of 80s stuff being sold as 70s - never spent so much time cross referencing Velobase. Which leads to my next question - nice list (zeus, GPM etc) - what about Rino? Doesn't specify whether they are 70s or 80s on VB and not been able to establish anything else from other ebay searches.

 

[GazK]

If you're willing to be patient and shop around it is possible to get a Campag record pista in ex condition for around £40. That's what I did for my Raleigh gran sport.

 

[Midlife]

True, everything comes to he who waits as they say. However, Patience to me is a card game and not a virtue

Cambio Rino Stuff appeared at the end of my era so would be late 70's at the earliest. The problem BITD would be no importer if Ron Kit, RJ Chicken, ELSMAR etc wouldn't bring them in. Campag and Jap copies, not sure how they got around copyright

Shaun

 

[FINNEY1973]

You did very well at 40 sovs Gaz, I haven't seen anything that could be described ex condition in that price bracket. I'd say worn is where 40 comes in. You are of course correct, patience is the key - alas I wasn't even in the queue never mind at the back when they were handing that stuff out!

Possibly sourced what I need - however before I take the plunge I need some help. I rebuilt the existing headset tonight to take measurements.

With bottom & top races in situ and all parts of the headset installed:

From the top of the headtube to the top of the fork = 29mm. This includes approx 2mm of thread that is showing (hence the crappy plastic cover to hide the ill-fitting headset)

From the bottom of the adjustable race the top of the locknut = 19mm. Again with the 2mm of thread showing.

So the Top race is 8mm.

From these measurements (in light of the 2mm of thread showing) what is the minimum and maximum stack height I can go to?

I've attached a pic of the ugliest headset in the world...avert your eyes if you are easily offended...

 

[torqueless]

You need to measure the bottom part of the headset too- bottom of crown-race to bottom of head-tube. Add that measurement to the 29mm. you got at the top. The result will be your stack-height.

 

[FINNEY1973]

That's 7mm so 36mm - so as close as possible to that figure I presume but not below 36mm else i'd end up with threads showing as it does now?

 

[torqueless]

Normally a locknut has a shoulder at the top covering the end of the steerer thread, so if that bottoms out before you've got the locknut snug against the adjustable cup, you couldn't tighten it any more anyway. That is the "headset with insufficient stack-height for frame" scenario.. You'd need more spacer, which is not ideal. Your locknut is either unusual or damaged if it lacks this shoulder (which it obviously does). That shoulder is what accounts for the 2mm odd difference between my measurements and velobase's. You're not going to end up with threads showing on a normal locknut.

I reckon you could go to about 37mm stack. you can always replace the spacer with a thinner one if needed, if you can find one. The one on my Pista is no more than 2mm- I've never tried dispensing with it entirely like Midlife has! That is the "Headset with too much stack-height for frame" scenario.


BTW-Tange Levin was alloy, falcon was steel. The Levin is about 37mm. stack. Someone was still doing Stronglight A9 not too long ago? I don't have the stack-height to hand- could be a bit too high.

I feel like I might be muddying the waters on this one!

 

[danson67]

Yup, that's certainly an ugly one. :shock:

the bottom part of the headset too- bottom of crown-race to bottom of head-tube.

That's 7mm

That's pretty short, are you sure? Usually this is around 12-14mm.

else i'd end up with threads showing as it does now?

No, if the measurement above is correct, you'll need a headset with a stack height just under 36mm.
If you look at all quality headsets, the top nut curves over at the top and covers the fork thread to give a tight 22.2mm fit around the handlebar stem quill.

I see you've just put it all back together, but here's how I measure how much stack height a frame/fork combo can accommodate:

Strip off all the headset components, put the fork through the headtube so there's no space at the bottom, then measure how much sticks out of the top. In this case, near to 40mm. Then look for a headset with a quoted stack height less than 2mm longer than the measured length, or cut a little bit off the fork length (if you absolutely have to).

All the best,

 

[FINNEY1973]

I love it when it finally clicks, understand totally via the last few posts - bloody marvellous effort gents - it's taken a while but the dunce in the corner has returned to his seat in the middle of the classroom

Right - only one hurdle to cross - the bottom race is well and truly stuck - it's been plusgas'd and it ain't moving. So for the moment all I can do is 'assume' it's within 1mm of the top race size which is 14mm. The measurements I gave previously where the visible measurements i.e. the bits you could see when all put together in the frame.

So new measurements - assume 14mm bottom race, the steerer tube is 162mm, with steerer in headtube flush to bottom race there's 28mm of thread showing out the top. the "visible" part of the bottom race is 8mm so if I add this to the 28mm gives me 36mm. Amazingly that's the same figure I had before :shock:

So headset of 36.2 stack height if I've done it right??? or as close as and add spacers.

Damn right it's ugly - when I picked the bike up I knew I was in for trouble when I saw the rubber cover - quite why it's on a frame with strada cranks is beyond me. I think there's a crappy old bmx somewhere with my nuovo record headset