EU, impartial facts. Where to find

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Your graph doesn't account for several costs, including those associated with housing most of the buildings (as mentioned in the bottom corner). Mine does.

As for the greatest nation on earth, what has the US got to do with all this?
 
While we are in Europe we can't be totally in control of our country. That's why I'm voting out,
However making this country great again might just be a impossible job for anyone.
 
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Raging_Bulls":7vdovhz7 said:
Now you're acting all surprised because we finally are sick and tired of the UK's nonsense and their threats to leave? Really?
We don't really care what the rest of the EU think. We're Britain. We don't need you.

If we get out then good luck. You'll need it.
 
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technodup":coxbrao0 said:
Raging_Bulls":coxbrao0 said:
Now you're acting all surprised because we finally are sick and tired of the UK's nonsense and their threats to leave? Really?
We don't really care what the rest of the EU think. We're Britain. We don't need you.

If we get out then good luck. You'll need it.

Precisely. We couldn't care less about being the most important country in the EU, we don't want to be part of the EU. It's very telling how the tone from Europe has changed as the reality that we might just actually vote out has caused the mask to slip more and more.

I really hope the majority who know deep down that the EU is an anti-democratic stinking cesspool of waste and corruption have the guts to put their vote to leave and aren't swayed by the (quite embarrassingly desperate in some cases) pleas by those with their noses in the trough to think only of the short term uncertainty.
 
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Raging_Bulls":arlec1ee said:
The UK is always bitching and whining because the Germans have a larger say in the EU than they do.
The Germans have the only say in the EU.

Time and time again during the Italian/Spanish/Greek debt crisis, members of the European Central Bank's governing board from those countries did not *dare* to outvote Jens Weidmann of the German delegation, even though the decisions that the ECB were making were crippling the economies of southern Europe.

Raging_Bulls":arlec1ee said:
Of course the Germans do, they contribute a lot more!
The Germans rigged the game in their favour from the beginning by making 1 Euro = 1 Deutschmark. This meant that while everyone else saw the value of their own currency pushed up in order to join the Eurozone (which made their exports less competitive), the Germans saw no such rise.

Palvos Eleftheriadis, professor of Law at Oxford University:
"Germany has also benefited from the fixed exchange rate that the Euro effectively secures between itself and its major European markets. This means that its export boom was not offset by a rise in its own currency. If Germany had been outside the Euro, currency appreciation would have hurt Germany’s gains. Not so in the Eurozone.

While Germany has benefited so much from the Eurozone, its less successful partners are left to fend for themselves. The Eurozone lacks the automatic stabilizers that other currency unions apply among the various regions — namely, fiscal transfers such as unemployment and housing benefits, shared health care costs, or the pooling of bank risks and deposit insurance. The Eurozone also lacks the large movement of workers across state borders enjoyed by the United States, mostly due to language and regulatory barriers. These institutional features of the Eurozone have created a highly unfair economic union, which magnifies disproportionately the consequences of failure."
More: http://fortune.com/2014/10/22/why-germa ... ree-rider/

Raging_Bulls":arlec1ee said:
In 2014, in the midst of the Syrian refugee crisis...
Remind me again, who caused the refugee crisis?

Angela-Merkel_pics_390.jpg


Raging_Bulls":arlec1ee said:
Despite their comparatively small contribution in just about every aspect, the Brits somehow still have this crazy notion that they should be running the show here.
Nobody should be running the show. The EEC was supposed to be a *community* of nations who helped each other to become successful.

What's actually happened is that France takes care of the French, Germany takes care of the Germans, and everyone else is left outside with their dicks swinging in the wind.
 
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JohnH":24y1hn4x said:
The Germans rigged the game in their favour from the beginning by making 1 Euro = 1 Deutschmark. This meant that while everyone else saw the value of their own currency pushed up in order to join the Eurozone (which made their exports less competitive), the Germans saw no such rise.

What nonsense.

On 31 December 1998, the irrevocable exchange rate, effective 1 January 1999, for German mark to euros was set at DM 1.95583 = €1

The other currencies rose in advance of the Euro as governments had to trim deficits etc as conditions of admission. Currency markets discounted depreciation factors as they would now be pegged to the policies of the ECB and there would be no prospect of sharp devaluations, e.g. of the Lire.
 
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hamster":2fvwb4ka said:
What nonsense.

On 31 December 1998, the irrevocable exchange rate, effective 1 January 1999, for German mark to euros was set at DM 1.95583 = €1
You're right, I stand corrected; it was the ECU (European Currency Unit) that was equivalent to 1 Euro when the currency was introduced. Memory is always the second thing to go.

I do seem to remember that in the 1990s, the Bundesbank was making monetary policy decisions in the interests of the Deutschmark which didn't really consider the needs of the currencies that were pegged to the DM. Hence Sterling's unseemly departure from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism.

Anyway, tomorrow's the day. And that will be that.
 
I've been following this with interest being a Brit, but not eligible to vote due to the expat 15 year cut-off, so
all of this is just rendered as a spectacle and like everyone else (in the World) I will need to deal with the
fall-out eitherway it swings.

I believe in Europe - as a concept - and done well out of it at a time when the UK couldn't provide
jobs for it's citizens who were born, bred and educated there. I took my bags and chances and buggered
off elsewhere because I could under the EU Free Movement principals with relative ease.

The EU participation seemed like finally the UK put a stake in the ground reflecting it's geographic
location and immediate close neighbours rather than the glorified and costly crumbled empire of yesteryear/decades
stretching to areas the Queen couldn't be bothered to visit. Contributing with all the give-in-take in such
a large and infant EU club is part of the pain and pleasure of the journey to construct it. Naive to think it will
ever be finished or evolve or be perfect. The Leave case is wholly disproportionate to the problems and
potential of resolution.

Fair enough, if the majority of voting UK citizens are sick of the EU and believe leaving the club
will help so be it. There's a large part of me that believes this whole referendum is pure insanity, something
to possibly blame, and something to hide behind later for whatever personal and political gains.

Personally, in this scenario all I see is the UK being reduced to a brown nose to only the USA down the line;
with handcuffs on and told firmly not to meddle about in the rest of the world.

A bit like the Bush - Blair lap doggy era with nothing but (even more) smoke screen politics to untangle. No
doubt Russia will be the decided enemy again to rally the peeps up and sign up to all sorts of nonsense
and be told to tighten the belt.

As proved with the whole Scottish referendum utter rubbish that amounted to nothing but a time wasting
affair - sorry, I will correct myself - the only consolition was an affirmation that people feel more "happy" part
of a bigger picture than not.

Hardly earth shattering stuff in 2016. Carry on.
 
Juncker today":282r6bke said:
British voters have to know that there will be no kind of renegotiation. We have concluded a deal with the prime minister. He got the maximum he could receive and we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no renegotiation, not on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned.
So there goes the reform it from inside fallacy.
AFP News":282r6bke said:
The EU will open new membership talks with Turkey as planned in a few days, EU diplomatic sources said Wednesday, just as Ankara’s accession becomes a hot-button issue in Britain’s vote on its future in the bloc.

One source, who asked not to be named, told AFP that EU member states will meet June 30 to agree to open a new negotiating chapter with Turkey.
Dodgy Dave says the year 3000... Turks raging on Newsnight saying he is their main backer. Two faced lying ****.
German CBI chief today":282r6bke said:
Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st century. The BDI would urge politicians on both sides to come up with a trade regime that enables us to uphold and maintain the levels of trade we have
News just in- turkeys do not vote for Xmas, no matter how much the EU wants them to. Common sense usually prevails in the business world.

Any other questions need answering before tomorrow?
 
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