EU, impartial facts. Where to find

[technodup]

Re: Re:

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Leader of Sinn Fein

Not that that massively and quite obviously biased list had any credibility whatsoever, but any it did have (very little) was somewhat spoilt when you cited the guy who spent 20 years trying to bomb us into his way of thinking. He's clearly got Britain's best interests at heart.

**** right off.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re: Re:

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Leader of Sinn Fein

Not that that massively and quite obviously biased list had any credibility whatsoever, but any it did have (very little) was somewhat spoilt when you cited the guy who spent 20 years trying to bomb us into his way of thinking. He's clearly got Britain's best interests at heart.

f**k right off.

Is that the best response you've got? How about you produce a list of notable Brexiters to counter the list?

As for Sinn Fein, like it or lump it (I can't say I particularly like it) they are a legitimate and significant political party in our close neighbours and therefore their opinion matters.

 

[technodup]

Re: Re:

As for Sinn Fein, like it or lump it (I can't say I particularly like it) they are a legitimate and significant political party

They're the 'acceptable' face of the IRA, an organisation who murdered Brits left right and centre, tried to kill our PM and left communities up and down the country devastated. They have absolutely no place in the discussion on Britain's future.

The list includes nonentities like Leanne Wood, who I wouldn't trust to tell me what day it is, various organisations reliant on EU funding, a load of people who fancy an EU job, and a smattering of foreign leaders with no skin in the game. It omits people like Dyson and the JCB CEO who actually manufacture in and export goods from the UK.

The more pressing question is if all these 'experts' are for in, and therefore it's such an obvious decision why are the polls suggesting we're going to vote out?

The answer is between them they haven't given any compelling reason to stay, and that people can see that money talks, and EU money flows into most of those people's pockets in one way or another. Money that's flowing out of their own.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

Produce a compatible list of people for brexit then. Make sure you leave out all those with a vested interest, no interest etc.

You can make a case against every person on each side quite easily so to dismiss that list of people, however light hearted the intention is foolish.

What do you think farage, gove, Johnson, etc have to gain from exit? Do you genuinely believe they're only doing it for the greater good?

 

[M-Power]

Re: Re:

A big drop in value of the over heated property market will be welcome to many in the UK. I hope it drops 40%.

Tell that to the huge amount of people mortgaged up to the eyeballs as that's been the only way to buy a house. I'm sure a load of people defaulting on their property will help the coffers no end. :facepalm:

It's fine though, as it'll suit you. :|

It makes NO difference to me at all actually
Economic correction/crashes have being going on predictably for hundreds of years. It's going to happen whether we stay in or out. I'm also thinking of the huge number of people who can't afford to get onto the property ladder, tenants, thinking people. The U.K. Market is fuelled by dodgy foreign investors, especially in London, forcing up prices along with historic low borrowing rates. It's unsustainable med/long term. There will be blood whatever. Staying IN will only make it a lot worse IMO.

As for your list, most of those are ideologically lined up with the politics of the EU, vested interests etc. That's is a typical US style negative polarising, patronising, intellectually insulting piece of crap propaganda. Thankfully this thread and most on here understand that politics is shades of grey, the big 69 percentile in the middle, not extremes at either end of the spectrum. It's sad to see things so polarised in the US by comparison.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

There's not much point debating the actual benefits of staying or going as the battle will be won by whichever side can create the most hysteria and spin by making the most poisonous threats that the most people fall for.

Add to that the great many will simply vote against the most odious characters. It seems the general public like call me Dave and Gideon even less than Gove, Smith and that floppy haired buffoon. It's like having to choose which testical you least want to be kicked in.

 

[M-Power]

Re: Re:

There's not much point debating the actual benefits of staying or going as the battle will be won by whichever side can create the most hysteria and spin by making the most poisonous threats that the most people fall for.

Add to that the great many will simply vote against the most odious characters. It seems the general public like call me Dave and Gideon even less than Gove, Smith and that floppy haired buffoon. It's like having to choose which testical you least want to be kicked in.

Sadly, that's how so much of today's decision making is made. Based on spin, lies, misinformation, negative media campaigning....it's very rarely about the real issues. It's all double speak, hidden agendas, vested interests, twisting perceptions to make people out to be evil, when I reality they just want a decent future for their kids like everybody else etc.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

I clearly should have put a 'wink' at the end of that list ( not mine btw, as stated) as you foaming mouthed brexiters seem to take everything so literally.

As for shades of grey, I genuinely have not decided how I will vote. This thread helps though as many of the out there brexit mob have shared views on here in the past that have been the direct opposite of my own so my gut tells me to run the other way.

 

[M-Power]

Re:

For rational people, it is ALL shades of grey. Both extreme positions are all bad. We should try to avoid adjectives like 'foaming' etc nobody is foaming I use Oral B Gum Protection It's all good debate and I like to think for myself and make IMO, informed choices. At the end of he day, if we stay in it's going to get a whole lot worse and we can never get away from it. No point feeling hen you coulda,woulda,shouda have made a different decision....but if we pull out, take back some control, watch what happens, either stay out or rejoin later....it's the lesser of the two evils methinks.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re: Re:

There's not much point debating the actual benefits of staying or going as the battle will be won by whichever side can create the most hysteria and spin by making the most poisonous threats that the most people fall for.

Add to that the great many will simply vote against the most odious characters. It seems the general public like call me Dave and Gideon even less than Gove, Smith and that floppy haired buffoon. It's like having to choose which testical you least want to be kicked in.

Sadly, that's how so much of today's decision making is made. Based on spin, lies, misinformation, negative media campaigning....it's very rarely about the real issues. It's all double speak, hidden agendas, vested interests, twisting perceptions to make people out to be evil, when I reality they just want a decent future for their kids like everybody else etc.

Yup. I realised long ago that there was little chance of making an informed decision based on what either side shouted.

I feel my default position is to lean towards staying in but have an open mind. I have waited for the leave group to convince me otherwise with reasoned, informed, factual information but am still yet to see anything of the sort. ' jump on board, it'll be fine.... I think' is not a good enough argument.

I like freedom of movement and also have no problem with immigration so what else have leave got to tempt me?