Differences between Shimano hubs?

[rochester21]

If anyone can answer this it's you retro freaks(happy to be a member here).

I am thinking about replacing the generic oem hubs on one of my road bikes, but i'm confused about what shimano hubs to choose. I know ultegra hubs are just about perfect and last a long time, but design wise isn't tiagra for example pretty much identical, minus the finish?

I don't have a lot of experience with road hubs, but i have used acera X hubs on my first bike for 20+ years and they have been perfect, despite being the cheapest hubs shimano made at the time.

I am aware that cheaper hubs might require more attention because they tend to become loose sooner and are more difficult to set up correctly than the more expensive ones, but again my acera hubs never gave me this issue.

The same can be said about 90s STX, LX and XT hubs, but when it comes to the newer generation road hubs i'm not sure what to think.

I am also considering using old 8 speed LX hubs instead of new tiagra ones, but they might not fit my 2004 Giant road bike because of the 5mm gap between road and mtb hubs.

So, anybody aware of the quality of the newer generation road hubs from shimano? I'm pretty confident tiagra hubs are good enough for my needs especially since i don't do a lot of miles on just one bike and also i don't put a lot of weight on the bike, but wanted to hear more educated opinions on this.

I'm crazy about wheels and hubs in general, and i don't think people give them enough attention, always willing to learn something new

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Generally Id say where the real differences are bar it being more shinier is not the hub but the axle and it's fittings. Cone surfaces that are a ground finnish are the best.then all faces of nuts spacers and cones want to be truly flat...couple that with drop out faces that are flat and true to each other that's the start of a really good hub!
But it all counts for nothing if it isn't set right from day one! You could have a 20 year old low end hub that's actually better than a top end new hub!
Worst things to do is overtighten locknuts the axle then will want to squirm under conering loads because of preloaded tension.
And never just loose and never just nipped!
You'll know when you have it set right when the wheel is spun it'll hunt for the heaviest point in the rim ...if you can get it to do 3/4/5/6 swings from clockwise to anticlockwise to leave the valve at 6 o'clock your doing good!
Set new hubs up run them for 50 miles or so strip em clean regrease put em back together they'll be a friend for life!

Best actual hub I have is one of the cheapest and most made hubs ever a Sachs maillard...probably a hub that cost about a fiver 30 years ago!

 

[rochester21]

Thanks for the encouraging advice, it's true that with traditional hubs one has to be aware of the tightness of the nuts and the condition of the grease.

That being said, my best hubs are the Campagnolo Record found on a cheap 1983 Basso road bike.

Mine seem to be running on a special oil instead of grease and they roll so easily, so smooth. No play whatsoever, and they feel well built.

Top notch engineering right there, i don't think anyone can top that.

I guess i'il go with Tiagra hubs then, unless a ultegra bargain presents itself at the right moment(often it does, just need to be patient).

Everybody's hunting for fulcrums these days, traditional hubs are not cool anymore apparently.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Thanks for the encouraging advice, it's true that with traditional hubs one has to be aware of the tightness of the nuts and the condition of the grease.

That being said, my best hubs are the Campagnolo Record found on a cheap 1983 Basso road bike.

Mine seem to be running on a special oil instead of grease and they roll so easily, so smooth. No play whatsoever, and they feel well built.

Top notch engineering right there, i don't think anyone can top that.

I guess i'il go with Tiagra hubs then, unless a ultegra bargain presents itself at the right moment(often it does, just need to be patient).

Everybody's hunting for fulcrums these days, traditional hubs are not cool anymore apparently.

I only do "traditional" as in cup and cone bearings.
Push fit bearings are a not a patch on a proper bearing designed to take side loading! It's a thing that's been "sold" to us as better when actually its just for ease and speed of manufacture.
If it's for off-road use worth looking at the sealing and how that's done...whereas road it's not as critical.

 

[pigman]

Back when these modern minimalist factory wheels came out, i too was skepical and thought they'd crack under use. But after 12 years of use of one pair of Mavic Ksyriums, i am a convert. And theyre still not knackered mechanically, they have just started to look a bit shoddy.

Back in the day of "proper" 32 or 36 spoked wheels, i was always breaking spokes after a couple of years. I did self builds, had expensive shop builds and same result. Fair to say, i am a heavier rider who tends to push big gears.

Ive used the MK's in summer, winter, for touring and find theyre lighter and more aero (so presumably faster?) and the fewer radial spokes makes them easier to clean. I've just bought a new pair £450, which in this day and age is neither cheap nor extravegant

 

[rochester21]

Back when these modern minimalist factory wheels came out, i too was skepical and thought they'd crack under use. But after 12 years of use of one pair of Mavic Ksyriums, i am a convert. And theyre still not knackered mechanically, they have just started to look a bit shoddy.

Back in the day of "proper" 32 or 36 spoked wheels, i was always breaking spokes after a couple of years. I did self builds, had expensive shop builds and same result. Fair to say, i am a heavier rider who tends to push big gears.

Ive used the MK's in summer, winter, for touring and find theyre lighter and more aero (so presumably faster?) and the fewer radial spokes makes them easier to clean. I've just bought a new pair £450, which in this day and age is neither cheap nor extravegant

I don't think you are heavier than me, i weigh 136 kg and in the last 14 months i have been riding a 2004 Merida with 32 hole ultegra 6500 hubs laced to standard alexrims rims and 23mm tires. No spoke was lost, but i managed to get the real wheel out of true once when passing train tracks, this one was my fault since i pushed the bike hard that time.

I just don't see how you could be breaking spokes so soon on a road bike.

The Kysiriums might be decent wheels, but not having standard hubs and spokes is a big let down for me, they're not cheap either.

With 250 quid i could build a pair of standard wheels that last a lifetime with 10 quid worth of grease and spokes, that's the price of a couple of mavic proprietary spoles, if i can get them.

Although i have no idea how to true a wheel myself, i did read Jobs Brandt's book and the man clearly states that a properly built wheel should never go out of true or lose spokes no matter how heavy the rider is.

Obviously, crashes and abuses are excepted from this logic, but until recently i have been riding poor quality wheels that were improperly trued and even so, losing spokes was not a yearly occurence.

I remember buying my first modern mountain bike around the year 2007, it was a used, 3 year old Specialized Rockhopper and 2 months into the purchase i started breaking spokes on the rear wheel for no apparent reason, which was a new thing to me.

The only solution was to rebuild the wheel, after which point i never had to worry about it again. I am guessing the first owner of that bike went hard on it and the spokes started breaking due to metal fatique, it was always the head of the spoke that broke off.

Nowadays basically all my bikes run vintage wheelsets, so more than 15 years old, but i don't worry about losing spokes because if the wheels are good quality and haven't been abused, they last and last.

There is a notion floating around according to which heavy individuals shouldn't ride light bikes or wheelsets, but i have been riding for 25 years now and the only failures i have had involved improper spoke tension, lack of maintenance and abuse(crashes etc).

The only concern i have is spoke count and availability of parts, since modern wheelsets are all about proprietary parts and low spoke counts, as if that helps.

Another problem today is finding real professionals that are capable of building a quality wheelset, one more reason i should have learned how to build and true my own wheels by now.

 

[pigman]

In fairness, things improved, spoke breakage wise with the launch of mavic open 4cd rims. Prior to that it was ma40s and G40s. Maybe the opens were a stronger rim

 

[hamster]

Midrange Shimano hubs are designs of genius with superb seals and decent-enough bearings (IME Campag is smoother, but that's splitting hairs and Campag's are not as strong a design).

There isn't much difference in the innards of Shimano hubs. XT/Ultrgra get stainless insides, although as it's softer than hardened steel it might not be the bargain it seems. Dura-Ace has a weaker freehub mechanism with longer unsupported axle (like Campag) so is fine for racing (as intended) but not for heavier duties.

I run Sora on my winter wheels, the seals are like M560 Deore LX. I fill them up with CV joint grease or marine propshaft grease and they stay smooth and corrosion-free. It's easier to set them up in a vice with a closed QR compressing the axle.

 

[rochester21]

Midrange Shimano hubs are designs of genius with superb seals and decent-enough bearings (IME Campag is smoother, but that's splitting hairs and Campag's are not as strong a design).

There isn't much difference in the innards of Shimano hubs. XT/Ultrgra get stainless insides, although as it's softer than hardened steel it might not be the bargain it seems. Dura-Ace has a weaker freehub mechanism with longer unsupported axle (like Campag) so is fine for racing (as intended) but not for heavier duties.

I run Sora on my winter wheels, the seals are like M560 Deore LX. I fill them up with CV joint grease or marine propshaft grease and they stay smooth and corrosion-free. It's easier to set them up in a vice with a closed QR compressing the axle.

I had no ideea that the lower tier models use plain steel vs stainless on the inside, i guess as long as they're greased they can't corrode anyway?

Thanks for the tip on the sora hubs, very useful indeed.

Found a couple of ultegra 6800 hubs for 70 quid a pair, that's more expensive than sora/tiagra prices but not by a lot.

It's good to know they will perform as expected either way, although ultegra hubs are shinier ))

PS. Looked for "CV joint grease", it's just lithium grease, which can easily be sourced and I was using it already, bought a large jar years ago.

 

[hamster]

I use a marine moly grease, which was also specified for VWs (30 years ago anyway when I bought the big tin!)

The ones to avoid are the XT M780 and other with fat aluminium axles - they made the bearings smaller to fit the axle. The bearings last less than 1000 miles before disintegrating and trashing the hub. Serious tourers now use the LX / SLX hubs, which retain the steel axle and bigger bearing.