Decals (safe during repaint/coating)

[Supratada]

I wouldn’t advise putting decals under lacquer in the first place.

Why not, this is the way they come from factory ? :?

I'm always willing to be corrected. All the bikes I've had have had decals applied over paint.

 

[boy"O"boy]

The decals I bought were quoted as being safe for lacquer-fix....and ironically, the company that I bought them off on eBay messaged me to say they do a lot of business with Bob Jackson selling them decal-sets and have never had an issue before ? They asked that Bob Jackson get in touch with them directly to discuss what the issue might be.

I can't see there being any difference between the heat required for fixing a proper powder-lacquer such as Prismatic Clear Vision and that required for a stove-enameled lacquer :?

Good to hear the decal guys want to get to the bottom of the problem, so many online retailers just can’t be bothered with customers service.

As for powder coating over transfers, I’ve never tried it. I know stove enamelling temperature is around 120c which most transfers and vinyls can take, but PC bakes at 200c and I know vinyls can’t take that, so I assumed transfers/decals couldn’t either.
Might give it a go.

Ps. Which company did you get the transfers from?

Worldcycledecalsltd was the company,.also known as bicycledecalsltd.

On reflection and having looked at this in more detail,.it seems that the high temps of powdercoat lacquers are not suitable for vinyl decals, however, CTC (Maldon) powdercoating offers a 2-pack lacquer over decals which have been applied over powdercoat (£75 +VAT), but I suspect this is standard wet 2-pack Automotive style lacquer clear-coat.

You've seen it already, but my Cannondale F400 was powdercoated in white. The forks in gloss black. The rear was then a gloss black wet -coat over this.
The whole thing was then scuffed over with a scotch brite pad before the ripped dividers and graphics were added. Interestingly, it's a combination of suppliers for the decals.

Ripped dividers = Gil_M
Cannondale headtube and downtube = global-cycle-decals
Headshok decals = bicyclestickersuk

The frame and forks were then clear coated using a wet automotive lacquer. I'll confirm with the guy that painted for me, but the modern paints we use are all water based.

I think the main difference is that this was left overnight in ambient temperature controlled spray booth to dry/ harden. I'm pretty sure this temp is no higher than 50deg C. The Rapid prototype parts we paint distort if the heat is too high and my frame would have been put in with them. Does the thickness of the decals make a difference? - these ebay ones were almost like a screen print rather than a vinyl cut.

Here's some pics.

Cheers.
boy"O"boy

 

[Gruff]

Re:

I have recently had a frame powder coated at The Powder Shack and was told that as the frame was to be lacquered with powder they had to use a special vinyl so could not use decals from Gil.

It has come out brilliantly though and cannot praise Matt at The Powder Shack enough.

 

[TheBear1978]

Re: Re:

I have recently had a frame powder coated at The Powder Shack and was told that as the frame was to be lacquered with powder they had to use a special vinyl so could not use decals from Gil.

It has come out brilliantly though and cannot praise Matt at The Powder Shack enough.

Who made the decals for your frame and do you have their contact details, did The Powder Shack do them ? Also, how much did they charge for the job, was looking for their webpage but they don't seem to have one ?

Also heard good things about LSN Coatings in Castleford but they don't supply or fix on decals, only coat and powder lacquer over top after you've applied them yourself.

 

[Gruff]

Re: Re:

I have recently had a frame powder coated at The Powder Shack and was told that as the frame was to be lacquered with powder they had to use a special vinyl so could not use decals from Gil.

It has come out brilliantly though and cannot praise Matt at The Powder Shack enough.

Who made the decals for your frame and do you have their contact details, did The Powder Shack do them ? Also, how much did they charge for the job, was looking for their webpage but they don't seem to have one ?

Also heard good things about LSN Coatings in Castleford but they don't supply or fix on decals, only coat and powder lacquer over top after you've applied them yourself.

They made the decals though they weren't complicated. They have a website under their old name: http://www.thepowdershack.co.uk/?fbclid ... F6jh2tp0iA

He also has a facebook page which he responds to pretty quickly. Just be aware that he does not run it as a full time business and it's not the most glamorous premises if you do visit

As an aside he can put the colour on in powder, then decals say by Gil and then wet lacquer over.It just depends on that particular job.

 

[Peachy!]

I’ve never bothered with cold wet lacquer over stickers on powdercoat, just seems a waste of money to me. The lacquer cannot make a chemical bond with the powdercoat so is always susceptible to de-lamination, once water gets between the layers it’s f**ked.
And for the price of a spare set of laminated vinyls from Gil, why bother?

Ps I know the OP was about stove enamelled water slide transfers, sorry for straying a bit.

 

[TheBear1978]

Well having finally had the frame back from Bob Jackson, seems to be a good job after the decals were replaced by the supplier, but did require some redoing as BJ missed cutting out some of the decals....also took them nearly 3 months and not the quoted 4-6 weeks.

 

[gil_m]

...guys, why not just take a laminated decal when you place the order?

I use a 30micron cast vehicle wrap vinyl, this is fine with temperatures up to 170'c but the problem is painters tend to run their ovens over temperature and this is where the problem lies, the vinyl expands ever so slightly and then contracts as it cools, this cracks the lacquer around the edges

The fact that original decals were produced as a waterslide mainly stems from the fact they would be doing 100's of sets not just a single set, sadly it's just not viable to produce single sets of water slide decals, especially if the company needs to generate the artwork as well...

Just a few thoughts

 

[TheBear1978]

...guys, why not just take a laminated decal when you place the order?

I use a 30micron cast vehicle wrap vinyl, this is fine with temperatures up to 170'c but the problem is painters tend to run their ovens over temperature and this is where the problem lies, the vinyl expands ever so slightly and then contracts as it cools, this cracks the lacquer around the edges

The fact that original decals were produced as a waterslide mainly stems from the fact they would be doing 100's of sets not just a single set, sadly it's just not viable to produce single sets of water slide decals, especially if the company needs to generate the artwork as well...

Just a few thoughts

Gil, I messaged you through your FB page a few weeks ago but didn't get a reply ?

I'm looking for quite a few Cannondale decal sets and possibly some custom Cannondale sets as well, is this something you can do ?

Cheers

 

[gil_m]

I can guarantee you would have got a reply as I have an automated reply asking you to send me a photo or link to the designs you're trying to match on a direct email

It's impossible to keep track of orders and enquiries via FB Messenger, so I always ask for a direct mail ~ Thanks

...can I ask which frame this was regarding, just for reference?