Crown race missing (or is it?)

[sherms]

Hey guys just got this 91 DB axis team frame and fork, popped out the fork and headset and noticed there doesn’t seem to be a crown race. There is a metal bit that looks pressed in the frok where the crown race would normally be, but it doesnt have the normal taper of a crown race. I’m confused obviously, is it just missing and DB wanted to make a fancy fork crown/steerer? Thanks

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

I'm always reluctant to suggest anything as an absolute - because bike manufacturers always liked to throw in "innovations" or proprietary standards here and there, possibly to confuse future retro-bikers in decades to come... but...

That doesn't look like a crown race. What headset was in it and was it running smoothly? It looks more like a sealed cartridge bearing crown race than a typical loose ball or caged ball crown race.

Also a crown race would have an interference fit with the collar at the bottom of the steerer rather than sit atop the crown - which does beg the question why the "shiny" bit sitting on the shoulder of the crown.

The surface looks a bit pitted as well - like someone had overtightened a loose ball headset - also making me think that it's not a crown race.

So I'm going with "that's not a crown race" but expect to be proven wrong!

 

[fennec]

I dont think thats a crown race, i think thats some form of seal ring for a sealed headset. I have a few old headsets and some modern ones that have something similar, usually it goes on after the crown race but i would guess thats integrated into the fork

 

[sherms]

update: I reached out to the seller and he said he the original fork (the green one) was replaced with a newer suspension fork at some point by the p.o., but they put it back on before selling. The headset is tioga avenger, cage ball bearings with a gasket/washer. Im thinking when the original fork was refitted they forgot to swap back the crown race. Like uncle grumpy mentioned thats probably what caused the pitting on the metal bit which was from the bearings resting on it.

 

[bikeworkshop]

update: I reached out to the seller and he said he the original fork (the green one) was replaced with a newer suspension fork at some point by the p.o., but they put it back on before selling. The headset is tioga avenger, cage ball bearings with a gasket/washer. Im thinking when the original fork was refitted they forgot to swap back the crown race. Like uncle grumpy mentioned thats probably what caused the pitting on the metal bit which was from the bearings resting on it.

That's it.
The fork has been refitted without swapping the crown race over, leaving the lower bearings running directly on the fork race seat - you can see wear there, and it will need to be faced Flat again before you refit the crown race.

Surprisingly common mistake by casual fork swappers.
Maybe there aren't any videos on youtube

 

[sherms]

Thanks for the replies, do you think the added metal bit was to give the seat more surface for the crown race? Im tempted to take a flathead and a hammer to it, and see what’s underneath Bad idea?

 

[novocaine]

I dont think thats a crown race, i think thats some form of seal ring for a sealed headset. I have a few old headsets and some modern ones that have something similar, usually it goes on after the crown race but i would guess thats integrated into the fork

that's the top of the fork bridge where the steerer is pressed in.

it's not a race. yes you are missing a race.

Thanks for the replies, do you think the added metal bit was to give the seat more surface for the crown race? Im tempted to take a flathead and a hammer to it, and see what’s underneath Bad idea?

do not hit that with a hammer, it isn't coming off, it's part of the fork.
the seller will have the race on the changed fork.

new headset is the easier solution.

 

[bikeworkshop]

I see the race collar (white) , and the seat (red) distorted by the balls running right on there.
It does look a bit like there's the remains of the inner seat of a cartridge bearing on the seat though, you could see if it moves.
But if you put a crown race facer on it, machine it all flat/ perpendicular, then away you go.

 

[ishaw]

The bit that you are asking if it's a race or not could just be the seal designed for the previous fork race. Hard to tell from the pics as my first thought was that it was as most have said, part of the fork and where the races seats against. As the pics do show some of the fork paint through it, I'm thinking it's a seal and should come off. You'll be better able to tell if you show a pic of the underside of the fork to us all for comment.

 

[novocaine]

I see the race collar (white) , and the seat (red) distorted by the balls running right on there.View attachment 877618
It does look a bit like there's the remains of the inner seat of a cartridge bearing on the seat though, you could see if it moves.
But if you put a crown race facer on it, machine it all flat/ perpendicular, then away you go.

I suspect that bit that looks like the remains of a cartridge bearing is actually the remains the the seat after bearings have tried to use it as a race.

better option would be to measure it. if it's bigger than 1,1/8 then it's not a seat, if it's 1 1/8" it's missing it's race and those grooves are wear from the bearing cage running against it.