Claud Butler mystery....

[Cyclechick]

Hi everyone,
I recently acquired a Claud Butler frame at a bike jumble which will be my first build. Fortunately my partner is quite knowledgeable in this area but we are struggling to identify the model. We were told it was 1955 but having trawled the catalogues etc on http://www.nkilgariff.com/ClaudButler.htm I think it might be slightly earlier. My suspicions are that it could be an International Club or Super Arrow but I'm not 100% sure. It is a lugless frame and had no original components (even the forks had been replaced). It looks like the (quite rare I understand) rear drop outs have been removed as the edges are sharp and unfortunately a bottle cage had been pot riveted into the frame (which we have since removed) and the paint covers up any evidence of pump clips etc which we think might be the missing piece of evidence... We are hoping to strip back some of the paint to check but I wondered if there were any experts out there who might be able to help shed any light on this one? The serial number on the BB (1111 552)also doesn't seem to match anything that I've found online re CB frames. Happy to be corrected that it's another manufacturer if necessary, although we're quite confident it's a CB.
Thanks!

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, the catalogues are only a guide, they were generally produced for the bike shows in November of the previous year, but I think in this case the 1954 CB cat maybe a better guide, and there is an International Club in that, that fits the bill. The vendor who sold you this ( what a good guy he is ) at a bargain price, is right with the year, it is 1955 and the month was February hence 552, the three digits are the important guide with dating it, sometimes they are above the build serial number sometimes below ( post 1949 ). Another factor about this time, was the imminent demise of CB, so he may of had stocks of frames that had been build previously awaiting to be sold, at the end of the day it is all guess work, but as long as you can place it thereabouts, that is usually good enough. I hope you turn it into something nice, as I said to you on Saturday it is now the parts chase that is the fun, any further assistance just PM me. Terry

 

[Cyclechick]

Hi Terry, thanks for your advice (again!). I'm having lots of fun investigating it all - we've now managed to strip the paint back and the pump would have fitted on the down tube so that's another clue. The only difference I can tell between mine and the catalogue is that mine doesn't have the "wrap over" seat cluster which is quite distinctive on some of the other frames but I think i'm getting close enough! We currently also have a bit of a disagreement over the distinctive rear drop outs - my bf is convinced they have been hacked off but i'm not so sure that it ever had them in the first place... Still, as you say, it's building it into something beautiful again that's the fun bit! It was good to meet you on Saturday, will give you a shout if we need any more advice Helen

 

[chaswahl]

The rear dropouts are a type designed by Percival Stallard, and probably manufactured by Cyclo, very common on 1950s English bikes, even those of high quality. I don't know that much about CB, but my understanding (from research on RO Harrison) is that non-lugged ("welded", though they may have been fillet brazed) frames were a more "economical" alternative to lugged construction, often in the same range or model. The International Club model from the CB 1954 catalogue lists a curved brake bridge (with reinforced brake hole), which your frame does not have (though the reinf. may have been a brazed-on washer on the brake side), but the fuzzy photo in the catalogue may have non-wrapover upper stay ends.

 

[Wheelnut]

The catalogues cannot be relied upon for accuracy. Details such as the tops of seat stays and even colour schemes were often different to the pictures, mainly because drawings from previous catalogues were sometimes reused even though the spec had changed.
Good luck with the build. Most 'real' CBs ride very well so it will be worth the effort.