Claud Butler id - hopefully!

[legrandefromage]

Oilers on a frame are usually a good pointer to the age of a frame too.

 

[Peachy!]

Oilers on a frame are usually a good pointer to the age of a frame too.

Ah yes,,,, but not conclusive, because in the early 60’s, Holdsworth still fitted an oiler (I have one on my ‘61 Super Coureur but not on my ’68 Tourino) actually adding that to the obviously Holdsworth badge (yellow ring top left rather than bottom left) and the 5 digit number being in the same format of those Holdsworth messy or un-recorded, hard to match, Claud years (1959-1976), if it wasn’t for the distinctive continental drop-outs I would say an early ’60 guess could have been on the cards, but I’m pretty sure none of these dropouts made it onto the Holdsworth frames (unless left over stock?)

 

[Flint]

Re:

Thanks for all your helpful replies! Intrigued to see that the plot has thickened. I couldn’t find a CB stamped anywhere but I’ll have a proper look in a couple of months when I’ll scrape some paint away. My bike is currently in storage as we’re about to move back to Australia but I managed to get a couple of extra photos in the darkness. Not sure how much use they are but there’s more information on the bottom bracket than I realised.

Some deep knowledge on this forum - thanks so much for your input!

 

[Flint]

Re:

Some snaps!

 

[Peachy!]

That bottom bracket has foxed me.... that 64/6 looks ominous!

Good luck down under!

 

[Flint]

Re:

I was worried you might say that... It’s the rear dropout prongs that are still giving me hope though!

And thank you!

 

[keithglos]

Re:

64 would indicate to me a high bottom bracket, typical of the time. most club frames were ridden using mainly fixed wheel transmission.

The cast lugs (Brampton?) were probably originally used for 26 inch wheel frames, British component makers were notably reluctant to modernise their designs.

Keith

 

[Flint]

Re: Re:

64 would indicate to me a high bottom bracket, typical of the time. most club frames were ridden using mainly fixed wheel transmission.

The cast lugs (Brampton?) were probably originally used for 26 inch wheel frames, British component makers were notably reluctant to modernise their designs.

Keith

Does that mean the 64 isn’t a suggestion of 1964 construction in your estimation? And would Brampton suggest not Claud Butler?

I’m finding this bike deeply confusing!

 

[Peachy!]

Hello Flint,
You’ve got a few potential problems; pre Holdsworth "real" Clauds could have been made from a whole bunch of different bits & bats, whether from customer choice or cash flow problems forcing them to rely on different suppliers. and of course, a previous owner of this bike may well have come to a conclusion that this un-identified bike might have been a Claud so added a repro or possibly original Holdsworth Claud head badge.
You may never know what it is, and no one's going to shoot you for claiming it as an early Claud.
But if it rides well and you like the fact that it has a whole bunch of quirky British features then I’d make her beautiful again, the climate in Oz should certainly mean she survives for many more years.

 

[keithglos]

Re:

The numbers on the bottom bracket casting look like cast in not stamped individually like the frame number. I think 64 is the angle between the seat tube and down tube, very important for the frame builder. Cast lugs could be pulled sometimes up to about 1 degree.
As this angle is now likely to be around 60 on later frames it would mean a higher bottom bracket, on 27s probably 11.25 inches.

Keith