Claud Butler-Holdsworth frame numbers 1959-1976

[keithglos]

I could be wrong here, but that frame does not look like a Holdsworthy somehow. Are the pop rivets in the head badge wrong.
Holdsworthy made good value frames partly by making mainly standard designs, but made a neater job of the rear ends than that. The fork crown was normally cast also.
I was retailing Holdsworthy frames and stuff in the 50 / 60s.

Keith

 

[Tarbyarmy]

To Keith, the aluminium pop rivets in the head badge are certainly wrong. I have, however, checked the inside of the head tube. The only drillings are the ones for the CB headbadge.

To Doug, the seat post is indeed 26.4 mm.

 

[Peachy!]

To Keith, the aluminium pop rivets in the head badge are certainly wrong. I have, however, checked the inside of the head tube. The only drillings are the ones for the CB headbadge.

To Doug, the seat post is indeed 26.4 mm.

Tarbyarmy, I think it’s time we moved this discussion over to a “Readers rides” thread..

Cheers

 

[FalconSS]

Hello, regular visitors to this road bike side of the forum will most likely be familiar with the Holdsworth frame number threads originated by dwscrimshaw;Holdsworth Frame Numbers and Holdsworth Frame Numbers Update

These have been used by dw to create an excellent Holdsworth/Holdsworth Claud database which you can access via the http://www.nkilgariff.com website ‘Holdsworth Frame Number Database’

And some of you may have noticed my thread advising on Claud Butler Frame number identification here;Claud Butler frame number identification

Historically there has been a bit of a black hole for Claud Butlers betwee1959 & mid 1976. This period is when Holdsworth numbered the New Clauds separately from their own stock, re-adjusting the numbers mid 1967 to prevent a clash with their own numbers then finally mid-summer 1976 giving up on the idea of keeping them separate and amalgamating both Claud & Holdsworths under the ‘start with a zero’ system
I say Historically, because CBguy over in Canada & myself here in the UK have been collecting **Good Data** numbers to hang dates from for some time now and have finally with the help of dwscrimshaws prediction system put together our initial findings. You can see these now incorporated in the Holdsworth Frame Number Database (link above)
What we need from you is more data please, Holdsworth Clauds, specifically from 1959-1976. Don’t worry if you are not sure, that’s all part of the fun.
Please post the frame number and a photo and any information you have however spurious it might be.
Here is what we have so far.

**update 28/03/19**
**update 22/07/19**
**update 02/10/19**View attachment 466816

I have a 1959 CB frame number 0159. However the bike is a Classique which may not have come out till 1962. The paint is original so could the frame have come out in 1959. It is cosmetically in a pretty poor state but the rust is very light.

 

[Peachy!]

I have a 1959 CB frame number 0159. However the bike is a Classique which may not have come out till 1962. The paint is original so could the frame have come out in 1959. It is cosmetically in a pretty poor state but the rust is very light.

Any chance of a HD photo of the BB & steerer stamps?

 

[FalconSS]

I hope the attached photos are good enough. You can see the bike is now a static one and I have dealt with the rust. All the original transfers are still there and I have laquered the whole frame to preserve them.

 

[Peachy!]

@dwscrimshaw have you seen the above? Bit of a head scratcher

 

[CBguy]

FalconSS and Peachy!

Frame features with original looking paint and decals certainly must be a Classique which according to catalogue lasted from 62 to 68 inc. No big distinguishing frame features other than paint and kit. There were a lot of CB frames like this built with Prugnat 62S lugs starting with the “Challenge". Interesting the Classique was named for the Classique Bluemel guards that had a centre silver strip!!! This particular frame has no oiler on under surface of BB (guessing present on left side top of BB) which dates prior to '64. Rear brake cable stops on top of TT with loops are interesting.

The eBay frame 0159 number at first glance appears odd as does not fit with our CB serial prediction as on page 1 of thread. In my former Flickr CB serial collection with photos (lost to cyberspace) I actually had a handful of low numbers with several Classiques that did not “fit” with their predicted years. I had wondered and now seems more likely these CB frames were stamped with the short lived 62-65 “4 Digit” Holdsworth sequence suggesting these Claud frames were built in factory or perhaps in the Putney shop where this serial sequence was also used. During these years for some unclear reason Holdsworth serials are restarted at 1 during '62 and approach 6000 by '65.

I have discussed this with dwscrimshaw (perhaps Dave will chime in) as he has a few CB frames with similar low serials that would fit better into this 62-65 4 digit Holdsworth serial sequence. I believe he has moved them.

Edit PS: Following the above, FalconSS' 0159 numbered Holdsworthy CB Classique would "predict" to 1962.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Yes as said we are getting a number of CB frame that fit this group better. I have added this one to it. It does seem to be the earliest number, but fits the 1962 date for the start of production.

 

[billkilpatrick]

Number on the underside of the bottom back shell reads: 12648 .. followed by what looks like a large letter "C" lying down or a horse shoe (which could be an incomplete 0, perhaps.). According to the chart above, this would mean the fame was made in 1961. Correct? If so, thank you ...