Claud Butler-Holdsworth frame numbers 1959-1976
- Thread starter Peachy!
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billkilpatrick
Dirt Disciple
Thanks, Peachy. Hope you can see the lugs clearly. Had a hell of a time getting the back wheel back on ... learn something new every day ...
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Peachy!
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Ok, by a process of elimination, it’s definitely not an Olympic, Cordon Bleu or either of the Coureurs, so that leaves the European or the Challenge.
My best guess is a Challenge.
billkilpatrick
Dirt Disciple
Gorgeous ... mouth watering ... - thanks, Peachy. Very much appreciated.
billkilpatrick, Peachy!
I believe those are Nervex Legere pattern 45 lugs that were used on CB Coureur in first couple Holdsworthy years before switching to more common and later Legere 48 version for Coureur. http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/parts/Nervex/nervex_legere_series.htm
The Challenge had Prugnat 62S lugs - altogether different.
prugnat+62+short.jpg
In an earlier post you point out the letter "C" after serial. Do I see a faint B just above it? Letters CB were often seen after serials in early Holdsworthy Claud builds.
I believe those are Nervex Legere pattern 45 lugs that were used on CB Coureur in first couple Holdsworthy years before switching to more common and later Legere 48 version for Coureur. http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/parts/Nervex/nervex_legere_series.htm
The Challenge had Prugnat 62S lugs - altogether different.
prugnat+62+short.jpg
In an earlier post you point out the letter "C" after serial. Do I see a faint B just above it? Letters CB were often seen after serials in early Holdsworthy Claud builds.
dorset boy
Senior Retro Guru
My 61 Coureur numbers.It has Nervex Legere lugs and when i found it the Headbadge was missing,bought one from ebay and it dos'nt line up with the holes?Reading this post you say yellow ring top left for this period which it has, so maybe an error in production ? Its only 2mm so can be sorted.
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Hi. I've just got a Claud Butler off Facebook marketplace. The frame number is 2742 (see the pics).
I'm very glad this thread is running and current! The previous owner told me that the bike is 1961 and it had been continuously in his family since new, but does that date tally with the chart, as the 1961 numbers seem to be higher than that?
It's possible that their memory of the date is out or the bike could have been in stock for some time and not sold until 1961?
Anyway, here it is. It's a 5 speed Classique model.
Edit: I think those are Prugnat lugs and, I saw somewhere else, Rivendell fork crown? I had a look further at the tables and see that there is a small area of 1960s 4 number frames which would tend to indicate that this is a 1963 build. I'd be grateful for your observations
I'm very glad this thread is running and current! The previous owner told me that the bike is 1961 and it had been continuously in his family since new, but does that date tally with the chart, as the 1961 numbers seem to be higher than that?
It's possible that their memory of the date is out or the bike could have been in stock for some time and not sold until 1961?
Anyway, here it is. It's a 5 speed Classique model.
Edit: I think those are Prugnat lugs and, I saw somewhere else, Rivendell fork crown? I had a look further at the tables and see that there is a small area of 1960s 4 number frames which would tend to indicate that this is a 1963 build. I'd be grateful for your observations
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Peachy!
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@Tabbyiab nice find, should clean up well.
When you look at @dwscrimshaw ’s number list there are actually two sets of four digit numbers, the Holdsworth one would have it as 1963 but the Claud Holdsworthy ones would have it as 1959.
But then the Classique didn’t appear in the catalogue till 1962 (printed in November’61)
There could be a number of reasons why this doesn’t tally and you’ll probably never know.
I do hope to see a restoration thread sometime soon though
When you look at @dwscrimshaw ’s number list there are actually two sets of four digit numbers, the Holdsworth one would have it as 1963 but the Claud Holdsworthy ones would have it as 1959.
But then the Classique didn’t appear in the catalogue till 1962 (printed in November’61)
There could be a number of reasons why this doesn’t tally and you’ll probably never know.
I do hope to see a restoration thread sometime soon though
dwscrimshaw
Retro Guru
I have to say that looks like a Holdsworth 4D number from 1963. Its an odd bunch of numbers and does already include a number of CB Classique's. Initially this group was thought to be a change of numbering in the early 60's for a couple of years before they resumed the 5D numbers again. There clearly was a break in the 5D numbers, but this 4D group seems to last longer than the gap and also include CB frames. All a bit odd, but this one in in good company in that group. Interestingly the first Classique frame in the group is 0159 from 62 and has cable guides on the top of the top tube. I thought this was a modification until I looked at the cat. I guess this frame is a early proto build and from 63 they had std. side mounted guides as yours has, but the catalog pics never got updated. If you go to the frame number page on the history site you can access the database and have a look for yourself.
