Claud Butler help please

[Swanny]

Hi everyone. I've recently picked up a Claud Butler from a friend of a friend who has inherited a few bikes and frames originally from an old bike shop but which have been kept in a lock up for years. Originally I got it with the intention of spending the winter months converting it to a single speed but I've spent many hours on the internet over the past three weeks researching Clauds and trying to establish if this is a pre 1958 frame or a Holdsworth. I've come to the conclusion that I need the advice of some forum experts who might have a better idea than me!

I've looked through the rather brilliant Nkilgariff website but maybe down to my lack of forensic skills have been unable to identify a clear likely model.

The wheels seem to be from a later period - they are Supraseal rims with 'Le Tour Made in France' hubs which I gather are not that great quality. The stem is Milremo and the rear mech is a Cyclo Benelux chain pull affair. The gear lever is a Compagnolo.

Unfortunately I can't identify a stamped number anywhere on the frame although there are some unintelligible markings underneath the BB. What makes me think that the frame might be an original Claud Butler is the frame joints which appear to my admittedly uneducated eye to be bi-laminates. Certainly they are quite intricate and have the 'axe head' design which Nkilgariff relates to the 'New Avant Coureur' launched late in 1948 and the Allrounder model, which was a simple lugless frame in 1949. Did Holdsworth copy these designs though? What looks to me as bilaminate lugs also has remnants of gold paint lining and there is also a gold 'cut out' at the top of the forks which i haven't seen elsewhere.

The BB has two oil ports either side of the frame and another above the forks on the headstock part of the frame, below the badge.

Any help/guidance/views would be greatly appreciated. If it is a Holdsworth then no matter. i still love it but knowing its likely age may determine how I approach working on the project. Eagerly await your reponses and If Ican I will now try and post some pics.

 

[bagpuss]

Re:

This style of lug work was used on both the Avant Coureur and the New All Rounder models both built by Claud Butler prior to the Holdsworth take over . The date of the frame will tell you which model it is .

You are right in that it of bi lamaite construction . There should be some stamping on the rear drop out .

Lovely bike .

Here is mine
Claud Butler by rebalrid, on Flickr

Claud Butler Circa 1949. by rebalrid, on Flickr

 

[Swanny]

Thanks so much for your speedy reply. That is an absolute beauty. Tell me, is that original paintwork or did you get it re-sprayed/re-lined? It looks fantastic, particularly with the chromed fork and chain stay ends.

If I have a Claud Butler original then that is fantastic news and out go the plans for a single speed. I'll try and get it back as near original as possible. The paint work is a bit chipped in places (not surprising then given the likely date) so I'll have to think what to do about that to keep the rust at bay.

I attach a photo of the underside of the BB where you can see there are some markings. Not sure whether to remove some paint to see if there is a clear number or leave alone.

Cheers!

BTW anyone any idea what the threaded brazed on bit might be for (its located just below the Reynolds 531 sticker -see the original photos top of thread)?

 

[bagpuss]

Re:

Frame was a full refurb done carried out by Mercians . Chrome work by Derby Chome plating services .

As with all CB frames you could have braze ons as required . I notice your has a lamp bracket on the forks .
Not sure what the seat tube braze on is for . I have never seen one like it before .
I can not see any reference to it in my 1949 catalogue and price list for fittings

 

[Swanny]

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into it once I've stripped everything. Interesting comment relating to the down tube braze on. I haven't seen it either on any posted pics of bikes. its a strange angle as well. There is another braze on further down just above the chain ring. I'd be surprised if they were for a pump.

 

[Piperdave]

OK, going to take a guess for you here. You have a clip type headset which is old, pre bankruptcy CB. Looking at the catalogues CB seem to have ceased production of solo bikes with clip type headset in the 1949 catalogue, retaining it for tandems.

The braze-on's might just be for an old manual front changer.....something like this would fit the bill, using a braze on rather than a band, and if it had a longer actuator, it might need a retaining bracket further up....





Dave

 

[Swanny]

Ok you are probably right, which means someone changed it to a single chain ring. Noted re the clip type headset as a date pointer. Thanks Piperdave.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, looks like a pre war Anglo Continental, the first digit of serial number would give you the year, a nice example, a couple of them are on Classic Lightweight readers bikes http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/readers_bikes.html . Terry

 

[Swanny]

Certainly the fork design seems to match. Wow that could be a really old frame then. I'll have to try and uncover that serial number.

 

[CBguy]

Hi there,

Undoubtedly that is serial number poking through on BB. Often you can find same serial number on fork steerer stem. Just a thought, especially if you want to preserve paint job and you are going to inspect races, regrease and change headset bearings anyway. Serial should give you year (single digit if before 50's), month and sequential number of build for that year.

Probably was repainted in 70's coinciding with 70's style decal Reynold's decal and downtube font.

Nice!