Claud Butler Frame from which year?

[Chris770099]

Can anybody help me date my Claud Butler frame?
What I do know is that it has Axe Bi-laminate 'lugs' and that these lugs were generally used on the Avant Coureur from 1947 to 1951 and on the New All Rounder from 1952 to 1956.The Frame has Simplex drop-outs and not the fluted top to the seat stays but a limited wrap over.
The frame numbers on the bottom of the BB are 883 099 and then 15604.
Here are a couple of pics.
I think the Alatete headset was pretty universal throughout the 1950s and will not help answer my question. Thanks in anticipation.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, I would think it was an August 1948 Avant Coureur, I'm fairly sure that's correct as the seat tube treatment is the same as my 1949 Sport Anglais https://www.flickr.com/photos/tk_photos/4760087488/ . Looks a sound base for a restore, has been painted before, and probably had the dropout added at the same time. Terry

 

[Chris770099]

Re:

Hi Terry, I thought that the first 8 would possibly signify 1948 as opposed to 1958 (becuase Holdsworth did not make any Bi-Lams). What I did not say is that all 4 drop outs are Simplex and I just cannot see why anybody would change all 4... Furthermore, the Avant Coureur was not infact in the Claud Butler Catalogue for 1948... but there is a suggestion that it ACs may have still been made in 1948. I agree that the seat cluster is nearer the 1950 AC.. see my other frame... but it is not identical.
So, if we are right, were these Simplex ends available in 1948? I would like to know so that I can get the correct transfers. I am also going to get the Nitromors out this weekend and see if the frame was infact fully chromed. A good project to avoid Xmas shopping! Chris

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi Chris, don't forget, the 1949 catalogue was probably produced late in 1948 for the Bike shows at the end of 1948. Also there is a 'Cycling' magazine test of an Avant Coureur in 1947, that was really an Sporting Anglais, but by 1948 the axes had appeared, so I think its a safe bet. As far as dropouts are concerning, you'll have to dig, but as a possible reason, the original owner may of filed the original dropouts to fit some fancy continental ( non imperial ) wheels, just a thought. Terry

 

[Chris770099]

Terry,
would you agree that the date on my Avant Coureur (the patina duck egg blue frame in the last photo) is January 1950? CB frame #993 501

Incidentally the varnish has lost its nature on this frame and after I sand it back I get to the clean paint. Any tips for removing old varnish without damaging the paint?

Chris

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, yes, I believe the 501 points to Jan 1950, are you collecting Avant Coureur's ? Now cleaning the frame requires patience, what I do is try the gentle approach first, i.e. gentle detergents, car wax, nothing abrasive to start with. With solvents its the same approach, be careful as solvents can take the paint off as well. Try some white spirit in a corner to start with, meths might be worth a go after that, but don't let it linger on the frame, be gentle and quick, slowly take the layers off. You're the one doing it , so you'll have to gauge what is going on with the paint, good luck. Terry

 

[Chris770099]

not really just ACs, but as you probably gathered from earlier posts, got Saxons and CBs. (I like the very original 1930s Saxon on ebay at moment but will not be tempted!)
on the frame... Only thing have found really works is Jeweller grade emery cloth and gentle elbow grease. Happy days!
Chris