Claud Butler - Carpenter - Vintage Bike - Wheel Help

[WhtANightmare]

Okay, so I think I have been measuring things wrong, as the iso size is related to the iso bead size rather than the overall rim size.

Which I guess then means that all the rims I have are actually all 700c's and not 27's after all. Either way I'll have to buy a pair of short clearance brake calipers to add to the bike.

Looking online it seems like the weinman 500 is possibly the closest readily available option?

 

[Woz]

You are measuring it as right as you can. The ISO measurement refers to the bead seat diameter, which is not the same as the external diameter. The hub centre and sprint rim also throws off the measurement a little too. While the tape measure doesn't lie, you will have to trust us that the old Mavic sprint rims are the same size as today's common 700c rims for tyres and smaller than 27 x 1 1/4.

https://sheldonbrown.com/rim-sizing.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubular_tyre

It's not safe to have a too large wheel in the front of a bike. There needs to be a margin of sufficient clearance for buckles so you can still control the bike - this is a primary concern.

Hill Climb events is something very British. It was common practice to make the bike as light as possible and use fixed gear. When caliper brakes with Bowden steel cables first started to appear on bicycles they were usually on the rear. Eventually this was proved the wrong way, and for fixed gear riding having one front brake is the now default. I can't say exactly when this transition started to happen.

You mentioned that he would have been about 20 years old - at 20 years old you would have been tinkering with all sorts and being inspired by the good racers of the day. The CB probably had steel chrome rims originally which compared to the Mavics would have felt like carrying a boat anchor up hill ..... why would you want to keep them?

Joking aside, it's always difficult to nail down the history of these vintage bikes. The CB is a bit more involved, probably more costly and will require some patience to get going. The Carpenter seems more straight forward.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

You are measuring it as right as you can. The ISO measurement refers to the bead seat diameter, which is not the same as the external diameter. The hub centre and sprint rim also throws off the measurement a little too. While the tape measure doesn't lie, you will have to trust us that the old Mavic sprint rims are the same size as today's common 700c rims for tyres and smaller than 27 x 1 1/4.

https://sheldonbrown.com/rim-sizing.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubular_tyre

It's not safe to have a too large wheel in the front of a bike. There needs to be a margin of sufficient clearance for buckles so you can still control the bike - this is a primary concern.

Hill Climb events is something very British. It was common practice to make the bike as light as possible and use fixed gear. When caliper brakes with Bowden steel cables first started to appear on bicycles they were usually on the rear. Eventually this was proved the wrong way, and for fixed gear riding having one front brake is the now default. I can't say exactly when this transition started to happen.

You mentioned that he would have been about 20 years old - at 20 years old you would have been tinkering with all sorts and being inspired by the good racers of the day. The CB probably had steel chrome rims originally which compared to the Mavics would have felt like carrying a boat anchor up hill ..... why would you want to keep them?

Joking aside, it's always difficult to nail down the history of these vintage bikes. The CB is a bit more involved, probably more costly and will require some patience to get going. The Carpenter seems more straight forward.

Yes

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

The Coronation came with steel rims Endricks. Forget 27" wheels in the claud. It needs 26" even 700s will raise the BB and change geometry.

 

[Jonny69]

Is there any chance that the grandad would have run a 26" wheel in the front and a 27 at the back? Or is it more likely he just didn't use the front brake and just chucked 27" in anyways.

No. It's more likely he would have raced on the sprints and used the 26" for mudguards. This was common back in the day. You need to put a sprint wheel in the front and see if the brake reaches. It probably will.

I put a tape measure across some rims in the loft in case it helps. Outer diameter, ie to the outer edge of the braking surface:
-27 x 1-1/4” (50s Dunlop) = 642mm
-700c = 633-635mm
-Sprint (tubular) = 635mm

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

As @Woz says its bead diameter not OD. Yes I think 700s will fit without m/g 27" won't, not nicely anyway. But it's so original why not run the right wheels, that will give the right geometry? The Carpenter has wheels that can be used, maybe start with that as the cheaper, parts here already build?

 

[jim haseltine]

If it was built for 26" then on 27" the handling will be a bit 'unusual' (so to speak). When I wrecked my work bike back in the 70s (a Claud by coincidence) I put all the parts onto my father's old 1950's Raleigh and built a new 27" front wheel for it. It's wasn't a pleasant bike to ride any real distance.

It's got me thinking now as to where that Raleigh frame is and what model it was - I've not seen it for years and don't think it's in the stack of bikes in my parent's garage. I know he had the bike when he was doing national service (so early 1950s) but it doesn't seem to match anything I can find in a Raleigh catalogue. I don't remember a 531 sticker on it, it was a sort of orange colour, 4-speed Sturmey hub and front Dyno hub, Swallow saddle, steel brakes. Suspect the hubs and saddle were optional extras. I'll see if he can recall what model it was but he's 91 so has a lot of memories to sift through.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

It's got me thinking now as to where that Raleigh frame is and what model it was - I've not seen it for years and don't think it's in the stack of bikes in my parent's garage. I know he had the bike when he was doing national service (so early 1950s) but it doesn't seem to match anything I can find in a Raleigh catalogue. I don't remember a 531 sticker on it, it was a sort of orange colour, 4-speed Sturmey hub and front Dyno hub, Swallow saddle, steel brakes. Suspect the hubs and saddle were optional extras. I'll see if he can recall what model it was but he's 91 so has a lot of memories to sift through.

Trent tourist?

 

[jim haseltine]

Closest I can find so far is a late 40s Super Sport, certainly pretty close in colour to what I remember and the brakes match too.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

Closest I can find so far is a late 40s Super Sport, certainly pretty close in colour to what I remember and the brakes match too.

If you find it I would love to see a picture or several