CIOCC San Cristobal - Tom Crowther

[Robbied196]

I live about a mile from where crowthers was. Used to love peering in through the windows on a Sunday. Its now a chippy

Lovely bike btw!

:shock: A witness to the shop :shock:

Be interesting to hear what he had in his window? Just racing bikes or a bit of everything?

I did hear it was a chippy and checked it out on google street view! Bit ironic really.

Thanks for your comment

 

[krankers]

He was a Raleigh dealer and had a good range iirc. My mate bought a raleigh bomber from there in about 1986 which he still owns! He seems to think they also sold Mongoose bmx's when they were decent.

 

[Robbied196]

Just stumbled upon another CIOCC, this time a Roy Thame. As Little Al said, it definitely looks like some CIOCC frames escaped

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261090925052? ... 1423.l2649

 

[fiks]

Also, the cut outs are definitely either Ciocc or Ciocc style. The main distinguishing of Ciocc is the 4 aces cut on the down tube lug.

Err...your frame doesn't have this shape of cutout on the lug, only on the bb shell. So the only thing that could possibly connect your frame to Ciocc is the bb cutout, which could have used by other builders.

 

[Robbied196]

Also, the cut outs are definitely either Ciocc or Ciocc style. The main distinguishing of Ciocc is the 4 aces cut on the down tube lug.

Err...your frame doesn't have this shape of cutout on the lug, only on the bb shell. So the only thing that could possibly connect your frame to Ciocc is the bb cutout, which could have used by other builders.

The only lug cut out I've seen on Ciocc's is on the headtube/downtube lug, not a great photo, but on mine its painted white in the last pic. The 4 spades as with Ray Dobbins San Cristobal http://www.raydobbins.com/ciocc/photos/photo25.html

 

[fiks]

Also, the cut outs are definitely either Ciocc or Ciocc style. The main distinguishing of Ciocc is the 4 aces cut on the down tube lug.

Err...your frame doesn't have this shape of cutout on the lug, only on the bb shell. So the only thing that could possibly connect your frame to Ciocc is the bb cutout, which could have used by other builders.

The only lug cut out I've seen on Ciocc's is on the headtube/downtube lug, not a great photo, but on mine its painted white in the last pic. The 4 spades as with Ray Dobbins San Cristobal http://www.raydobbins.com/ciocc/photos/photo25.html

Sorry, now that I've looked at your lug again, because the photo is not clear, I thought it has a different cutout.

 

[Little Al]

Just stumbled upon another CIOCC, this time a Roy Thame. As Little Al said, it definitely looks like some CIOCC frames escaped

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261090925052? ... 1423.l2649

A bit of an up date, came across one of my old books from the pro days[ listing gear ratio`s for different stages in races etc.] & came across an entry that jogged my memory At that time there was a 2nd div regional team in France that were part sponsored by the shop that gave us bits, & the 3 or 4 best riders were fitted up with the unbadged Ciocc`s at the time their primary sponsor was Alfa Lavel [makers of milking equipment so the frames got badged Alfa Lavel]IIRC a couple years later they were sponsored by Fangio the furniture manufactures but the frames then were Vitus 979`s badged Fangio. Doesn`t solve your problem but sheds light as to what took place

 

[fiks]

Here's a Fangio I once saw:

 

[Robbied196]

Just stumbled upon another CIOCC, this time a Roy Thame. As Little Al said, it definitely looks like some CIOCC frames escaped

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261090925052? ... 1423.l2649

A bit of an up date, came across one of my old books from the pro days[ listing gear ratio`s for different stages in races etc.] & came across an entry that jogged my memory At that time there was a 2nd div regional team in France that were part sponsored by the shop that gave us bits, & the 3 or 4 best riders were fitted up with the unbadged Ciocc`s at the time their primary sponsor was Alfa Lavel [makers of milking equipment so the frames got badged Alfa Lavel]IIRC a couple years later they were sponsored by Fangio the furniture manufactures but the frames then were Vitus 979`s badged Fangio. Doesn`t solve your problem but sheds light as to what took place

Funny thing is I used to have a Vitus 979 as well

From what you've explained it does make sense that some Ciocc's blanks got badged to order. Its odd that the Roy Thame Ciocc that's on Ebay is pantographed in exactly the same way as mine. Rear seat stays, top of the fork crowns and top of the BB shell. Almost like they were being pantographed to order from the same place.

 

[Robbied196]

Sorry, now that I've looked at your lug again, because the photo is not clear, I thought it has a different cutout.

Its time for a new camera!