Carlton Super Course needing some love - car boot find

[torqueless]

Re:

I'm guessing that with the direction of pedaling these freewheel bodies (and the rear sprockets) get progressively tighter as the bike is ridden (up to a point obviously).

That's about it.. I recently improvised a very thin washer/spacer which sits between the freewheel and the shoulder on the hub thread. Hopefully it'll make removal easier, but I'm not banking on it..

302mm long spokes (measured from the inside of the bend), 2mm at the ends butted down to 1.5ish in the middle. Sound about right? Anyone got any recommendations on what to buy? Currently looking at DT Swiss butted stainless spokes......

I'm no spoke expert, but it sounds about right to me. Iirc for me it was a toss-up between 302mm and 303mm on the same front hub to a Mavic MA2 rim. Fwiw, my spokes appear to be double butted 2mm/1.8mm/2mm, aka 14/15/14 gauge.

Really really tempted to give wheel building a shot.....on the front wheel at least. Bit confused about how you achieve a dish on the rear - different length spokes?

Yeah.. you'll need to measure one from each side. They will be slightly different. But I wouldn't bet on getting an intact one out of driveside with any part of the freewheel still on the hub!..

 

[sherlylock]

Suntour freewheel tool has arrived. I'm looking forward to breaking it/getting frustrated with it later.

Sweets certainly didn't last long - nice surprise - good on ya Tredz!

 

[nonowt]

Re:

I may well have been lucky but I didn't have much trouble with mine. I just held the wheel between my legs and gave a bit oomph with the spanner.

This tip from Sheldon was very useful though, as it stop the remover flying off:

... the tool [remover] should be secured against the freewheel by [lightly] tightening down the axle nut or quick release skewer (with the springs left off). Once the freewheel has broken loose from the hub, remove the axle nut or skewer before unscrewing the freewheel any further -- or else you will break something.

Good luck!

 

[sherlylock]

Re: Re:

I may well have been lucky but I didn't have much trouble with mine. I just held the wheel between my legs and gave a bit oomph with the spanner.

This tip from Sheldon was very useful though, as it stop the remover flying off:

... the tool [remover] should be secured against the freewheel by [lightly] tightening down the axle nut or quick release skewer (with the springs left off). Once the freewheel has broken loose from the hub, remove the axle nut or skewer before unscrewing the freewheel any further -- or else you will break something.

Good luck!

Cheers!

Yeah I'd planned on doing this - I always do it on Shimano cartridge bottom brackets as that tool never wants to stay in place when untightening - the engagement of the teeth on the tool into the bottom bracket is really minimal!

Be interesting to see if it comes apart or not......

 

[cce]

Re: Re:

Really really tempted to give wheel building a shot.....on the front wheel at least. Bit confused about how you achieve a dish on the rear - different length spokes?

slight differences in length, but mostly just variant tension. Can recommend "A Practical guide to wheelbuilding" by Roger Musson

 

[sherlylock]

Harnessing the strength of the Haribo.......

*does a little victory dance around the garden*

 

[sherlylock]

Re: Re:

Really really tempted to give wheel building a shot.....on the front wheel at least. Bit confused about how you achieve a dish on the rear - different length spokes?

slight differences in length, but mostly just variant tension. Can recommend "A Practical guide to wheelbuilding" by Roger Musson

Cool - thanks for that. Will give it a look.

 

[gilespargiter]

Bit late now and I'am pleased you have already done it. The way I usually remove freewheels is as you have - but hold the remover in a good vice and with a tyre fitted and inflated - then turn the wheel. It stops any sideways twist on the wheel, which of itself can bend the spokes if the freewheel is very tight, and is a comfortable safe way to apply the torque.
You are lucky that you got a good quality remover as the two prong ones can be susceptible to a prong breaking.

Reading your rebuild keenly - my favourite bike is a Carlton Corsair - a lightweight clubman/tourer.

 

[sherlylock]

Bit late now and I'am pleased you have already done it. The way I usually remove freewheels is as you have - but hold the remover in a good vice and with a tyre fitted and inflated - then turn the wheel. It stops any sideways twist on the wheel, which of itself can bend the spokes if the freewheel is very tight, and is a comfortable safe way to apply the torque.
You are lucky that you got a good quality remover as the two prong ones can be susceptible to a prong breaking.

Reading your rebuild keenly - my favourite bike is a Carlton Corsair - a lightweight clubman/tourer.

Good tip - to be honest, like the rest of the bike this wasn't really that tight and came off with no effort at all. It's as if the bike was bought, ridden for a few hundred miles then left out in the rain for years.

You've got a Carlton Corsair, cool......I picked one up 3 days ago which is now undergoing a strip and clean and service.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=353883

 

[sherlylock]

Re: Re:

the general consensus seems to be not to take them apart.

Not for the first time I find myself at odds with the general consensus.. :| I bet that freewheel would benefit immensely from a proper service, and probably fresh balls.
Inside that freewheel you will find two races full of little balls, and between them a pair of pawls held by captive springs. To get at them, you can tap the (inner) lockring free with a hammer and appropriate screwdriver if you are careful. There's an arrow and 'unscrew' engraved on the ring, because it has right hand thread and unscrews counter-clockwise, unlike most other freewheels.

If the freewheel is moving OK then I'd leave it as they can be a mare to get off, the only reason to take them off is if you are replacing it.

Under 'normal' circumstances Shaun's advice would be sound, but chances are you are going to want to replace those rusty spokes, and it is a bloody nuisance to do that with the freewheel stuck in the way. Imo the best technique for removing obstinate freewheels is to strip them down completely, leaving just the inner body on the hub. On a two-pawl freewheel (this one is), the pawl-housings offer a much better vice-grip/leverage point than you get by using the two-prong removal tool in the slots. Plus-gas is your friend, as always! Just try not to damage the pawl housings.

What is the best lubrication to use for freewheels?

Imo it depends on how often you want to lubricate them. Oil, if you are going to remove (and oil) the block frequently. If not, light grease for the balls, with just a smear on the ratchet and pawls.

I'm actually considering adopting the practice of loosening my freewheel on its hub thread every day- they are such a bugger to get off.

Curiosity got the better of me last night and I managed to get the freewheel apart by tapping the outer lockring round (after a bit of persuasion).

Safe to say it's seen better days (remember it was locked solid!) - water has obviously pooled in the lowest point when it's been stood up and has corroded the insides at one point. There doesn't seem to be much wear though - just corrosion.

I've ordered some new balls and I'm going to re-assemble anyway to see what the improvement is like. I think it will function OK but may be a little grumbly.











Safe to say that if you can get it all apart a freewheel stripdown and regrease has got to be well worth doing.....for peace of mind at least!