Campagnolo compatible - 8 speed deep section wheels?

[hamster]

9 speed on have deeper splines (but otherwise the same design as 8 speed) as they switched the freehub body to alloy. Cheaper 9 speed cassettes (like Veloce) are fully separable and the sprockets are the same thickness as 8. Essentially if you re-assemble with the 8 speed spacers you should be OK.

Is this correct Hamster? I had thought an 8 speed Exa-Drive freehub/cassette, was completely different from all 9 spd + freehubs that followed (Ultradrive and so on) - and that the cassette splines were incompatible as a result?

The splines are incompatible in the sense that:
a) 9 speed sprockets don't fit onto an 8 speed hub
b) 8 speed sprockets must not be fitted onto a 9 speed hub as they are too shallow and will mangle the body in use.

 

[rjsdavis]

The splines are incompatible in the sense that:
a) 9 speed sprockets don't fit onto an 8 speed hub
b) 8 speed sprockets must not be fitted onto a 9 speed hub as they are too shallow and will mangle the body in use.

This is what I thought - therefore, I don't understand your original post! You seem to be suggesting re-spacing 9 speed cogs, with 8 speed spacers, but the 9 speed cogs won't fit onto an 8 speed hub anyway....

 

[foz]

no, he means using only eight 9-speed cogs with the appropriate spacers on a 9/10/11 speed hub

 

[pete_mcc]

Re: Re:

Are you saying that if I went for this solution, that the mech would need to be "reset" on one of the middle sprockets?

No, just set the middle gear as perfectly as possible so that the jockeys are dead-centre with the sprocket and it will mean the gears run smooth across the whole block, no buggering about honest!

 

[glpinxit]

Retro answer is as Foz said, use retro Campag aero wheels.
Zonda are the most common. Same appearance as Vento and Shamal but round spokes (can't remember count) and lower spec hubs. Clincher only. From £80 for a pair on eBay. Mine used to creak badly up 22% Bison Hill.
Vento, better hubs and 20 bladed spokes. Clincher only. From £120 on eBay. Have steered clear of Bison Hill! http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=12
Shamal are top of the range. Some models with 16 spokes, others 20. Tubular as well as clincher. Probably no more aero than Vento but legendary so from £200 on eBay. http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=10 and http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=11
As with all wheels, take care buying on eBay as bearings and races may be shot and parts are scarce. All these need a specific tool to adjust spokes as they are in the rim which also means tyre, tube and rim tape have to come off (but so do my modern Hed wheels).

 

[mattsccm]

10 speed hub. 10 speed cogs with spacers from 8 speed cassette. I know the sprockets are a touch narrower so in theory the spacings c to c are wrong but it's fine. I wonder if 7 speed Shimano spacers are a touch wider which might bring the c to c back? Might try it, probably not.

 

[gfk_velo]

Re:

Hi guys -

The definitive answer is this - you can:
1, Fit an 8s cassette to the deep spline body directly, using a spacer behind the cassette so that the lockring is actually locking against the top sprocket. In this case we advise that the cassette as a whole is assembled, the lockring very lightly tightened, then each sprocket is physically turned clockwise so that the load-bearing surface of the sprocker spline is hard up against the corresponding surface of the cassette body. Then, the lockring needs to be fully tightened to 50 nm. This will minimise any fretting, which is what will cause the damage to the alloy cassette body from the comparatively narrow 8s cassette splines. 8s cassettes are still available from Campagnolo in 13-23 and 14-26 ratios.
2. Split a 9s cassette using the smallest 8 sprockets and spacing it with Campagnolo part number KIT-08, if you can find one - this kit was made up to MY2010 I think, specifically for this job - there may still be a few out there and as they are spacers only, they don't wear out as such so there may also be some used ones that are perfectly OK to be had. In this case we'd advise the same fitting technique as we suggest above to reduce the likelihood of damage to the cassette body. 9s cassettes are also available from Campagnoloo still as complete cassettes but not loose sprockets.


HTH
Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd

 

[rjsdavis]

Retro answer is as Foz said, use retro Campag aero wheels.
Zonda are the most common. Same appearance as Vento and Shamal but round spokes (can't remember count) and lower spec hubs. Clincher only. From £80 for a pair on eBay. Mine used to creak badly up 22% Bison Hill.
Vento, better hubs and 20 bladed spokes. Clincher only. From £120 on eBay. Have steered clear of Bison Hill! http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=12
Shamal are top of the range. Some models with 16 spokes, others 20. Tubular as well as clincher. Probably no more aero than Vento but legendary so from £200 on eBay. http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=10 and http://www.velobase.com/ViewComponent.a ... &AbsPos=11
As with all wheels, take care buying on eBay as bearings and races may be shot and parts are scarce. All these need a specific tool to adjust spokes as they are in the rim which also means tyre, tube and rim tape have to come off (but so do my modern Hed wheels).

Thanks glpinxit - this is a very helpful summary.

 

[rjsdavis]

Re: Re:

The definitive answer is this - you can:
1, Fit an 8s cassette to the deep spline body directly, using a spacer behind the cassette so that the lockring is actually locking against the top sprocket. In this case we advise that the cassette as a whole is assembled, the lockring very lightly tightened, then each sprocket is physically turned clockwise so that the load-bearing surface of the sprocker spline is hard up against the corresponding surface of the cassette body. Then, the lockring needs to be fully tightened to 50 nm. This will minimise any fretting, which is what will cause the damage to the alloy cassette body from the comparatively narrow 8s cassette splines. 8s cassettes are still available from Campagnolo in 13-23 and 14-26 ratios.

Thanks for this response. Am assuming that everything you've said relates to Campag? Assuming so, this appears to not work as we've already established that an older 8 speed Exa-Drive cassette will not fit onto a 9/10/11 speed Campag hub as the cassette splines are a different pattern.

2. Split a 9s cassette using the smallest 8 sprockets and spacing it with Campagnolo part number KIT-08, if you can find one - this kit was made up to MY2010 I think, specifically for this job - there may still be a few out there and as they are spacers only, they don't wear out as such so there may also be some used ones that are perfectly OK to be had. In this case we'd advise the same fitting technique as we suggest above to reduce the likelihood of damage to the cassette body. 9s cassettes are also available from Campagnoloo still as complete cassettes but not loose sprockets.

Is it KIT-08, a spacer kit? Assuming so, I follow this...

 

[gfk_velo]

Re: Re:

The definitive answer is this - you can:
1, Fit an 8s cassette to the deep spline body directly, using a spacer behind the cassette so that the lockring is actually locking against the top sprocket. In this case we advise that the cassette as a whole is assembled, the lockring very lightly tightened, then each sprocket is physically turned clockwise so that the load-bearing surface of the sprocker spline is hard up against the corresponding surface of the cassette body. Then, the lockring needs to be fully tightened to 50 nm. This will minimise any fretting, which is what will cause the damage to the alloy cassette body from the comparatively narrow 8s cassette splines. 8s cassettes are still available from Campagnolo in 13-23 and 14-26 ratios.

Thanks for this response. Am assuming that everything you've said relates to Campag? Assuming so, this appears to not work as we've already established that an older 8 speed Exa-Drive cassette will not fit onto a 9/10/11 speed Campag hub as the cassette splines are a different pattern.

2. Split a 9s cassette using the smallest 8 sprockets and spacing it with Campagnolo part number KIT-08, if you can find one - this kit was made up to MY2010 I think, specifically for this job - there may still be a few out there and as they are spacers only, they don't wear out as such so there may also be some used ones that are perfectly OK to be had. In this case we'd advise the same fitting technique as we suggest above to reduce the likelihood of damage to the cassette body. 9s cassettes are also available from Campagnoloo still as complete cassettes but not loose sprockets.

Is it KIT-08, a spacer kit? Assuming so, I follow this...

The only ExaDrive 8s that won't fit are the (comparatively rare) Record Ti variants.

The limiting factor here is not will the new sprockets fit the old bodies, where the depth of the valleys in the body is a limiting factor but will the 8s cassettes fit the current bodies, where the relative widths and positions of the splines on the inside of the sprockets and the valleys in the hub bodies define fit.

If we are looking at any 8s cassette apart from the Ti variant, they'll all fit the current body with suitable spacing behind, as the spline depths are shallow and the spline spacings, in terms of fit into the valleys on the body, are comaptible - there is "vacant space" in some of the valleys but the leading edges of the splines are in the right places to allow fit.

Somewhere we have a set of drawings for the each of the hub bodies - I will see if I can dig it out and publish.

If you've the software, time & patience, there are end-on images of all the bodies at the Branford Bikes website - you can overlay images of the bodies (you'll need to do a bit of twisting of the images around the centre point) and you'll note that all bar the Ti version can be overlaid with the leading edges of the original 7 / 8s cassette body splines in the same relative positions.