Braze on Cable guides

[WD Pro]

Re:

I can help you out with those...£2 each incl plastic clip and UK postage:

The plastic clips are for 5mm hoses, but the steel saddle will take a zip tie if you run fat 6mm hoses, braided etc.

Ceeway are pretty retro, concentrating on steel parts, lugs etc. They've been around since it wasn't retro... but there is some nice modern stuff under What's New
Also have a look at Paragon Machineworks.

All the best,

Hi,

What material are these and do you have any left ?

Cheers,

WD

 

[swingbing]

I didn't get around to using the ones I bought. Don't suppose I will now. I don't know exactly what material they are, but a steel of some sort, with plastic clips.

I have 14 of them which you are welcome to have for what I paid for them (£1.50 each + post).

 

[danson67]

Hi WD,

They are cast CrMo.
Stainless ones are available, or rivet-on aluminium.
I do have some still in stock, but I'd take Swingbing up on his offer, that'd help him out too.

All the best,

 

[WD Pro]

Thank you

I had missed responding to swingbing’s post above

Do you have any of the stainless ones available ?

I have never had them on a bike before but I would guess they are the kind of thing that might get chipped and / or paintwork worn off, stainless might be a better idea ?

Any tips on holding them in place pre brazing or materials to use for brazing would be greatly appreciated

I have silver soldered dints up before and still have the pre fluxed rods and burner etc.





Will these be OK or is there a better way with better materials etc ?

Do you have any bottle bosses ?

Thanks in advance for any help

WD

 

[danson67]

Hi WD,

I've not got any stainless at the moment, but I'll be doing an order later this week if you can wait a little.
Stainless water bottle bosses? yes. PM if you want to get something.

You shouldn't have any trouble using the propane torch, as you're not heating up any large volumes of metal. Only needs 610-670ºC. No problem with stainless small braze-ons as it's 34% silver, there are better rods for structural work.

If you do use those rods (BS1845 Ag11) be very careful, as they contain 21% Cadmium, which can boil off as a yellow flare at only 766ºC, get breathed in or ingested as dust and mess with your kidneys, lungs and nervous system :shock: It flows beautifully for lugged work, but very few framebuilders use it these days, it's notifiable waste, even banned in some countries...It's better for use in controlled temperature/atmosphere oven brazing.

Perhaps look for some 35-40% silver cad-free rods and suitable flux. It's almost as good, but wont kill you. CupAlloys are good for this sort of thing.

For holding them in place...main thing is to not braze your holding device to the frame as well :facepalm: ... Usual method would be a section of stiffish wire rod (mudguard stay?) clamped to the tube with a g-clamp, with its tip resting on the braze-on. Some people will bend the rod into a hook and hang a spanner or something from the hook instead. It all needs to be held fairly firmly, as there's a lot of force and lubrication when the water in the flux boils off, but not held so firm that the tube or braze-on gets distorted as it heat up and expands.

Here's a really nice pro solution from Sputnik Tool $85:

And a quick bodge

Something in between:

Cheapest (and quickest) option is to flux the braze-on well, use the flux paste to pick up a short offcut of rod on the surface of the braze-on. Hold the piece roughly in place with some needle-nosed pliers and heat. The pliers act as a heatsink to help stop the piece overheating. The flux and rod will melt, remove the heat, holding the braze-on in place as it cools. Probably under 20 seconds a fitting, but you need a good eye to make sure that they're all nicely in line.

All the best,

 

[WD Pro]

Thats great thanks

Please could you post (or pm) me a link to the place you will do this order from ?

I would really like to fit stainless and for the bottle bosses to be the blanked off type - they are for the fat which has sealed tubes.

Cheers,

WD

 

[danson67]

Sure, I get most of these little bits from Peter Evans at Ceeway.
He doesn't list prices, but most of these little braze-ons end up around £1- £1.50 each if you buy 10-20.
Stainless are usually about double. He has the blanked off bottle fittings about half way down this page.
Bear in mind that you do need to have a breather hole somewhere for the expanding hot air to escape...could be BB or head tube, which are at least pretty well sealed from moisture in an assembled bike.
Chances are there's a hole somewhere already. All the building methods require something, brazing, welding or bonding, although it may have been sealed with wax/epoxy/Frame-saver etc post-build.

Also plenty of parts to ogle at Paragon Machine Works, Nova Cycles, Torch and File, Rahmenbauteile etc.

All the best,

 

[WD Pro]

Thanks Dan

Is there any advantage jumping on your order or am I just mithering you for nothing ? Will he sell direct to the public ?

I have loads of questions so I hope you dont mind ...

Are the pipe mounts a one size suits all ? i.e. the same mount for a top tube and for a stay ? Will I have to alter the radius where it touches the frame or is it small enough for the silver to flow in and fill it fully ?

Same question for the twin cable stops.

How did Fat seal the frame vents ? i.e. the down tube is fully sealed including the closed bottle bosses and none of the stays or bridges are vented - what would have been done / sealed last ? Maybe the bosses ? I will be using the bosses to go under the chainstay for the chain suck plates that they used on the later years, I want the tube to remain sealed.

Will my torch above have enough heat to debraze the tripple cable stops currently fitted ? I want to keep them for future.

For info, the parts I have my eye on are :

* 200S Stainless Cable Guide. Comes with Plastic Clip. Also Suitable for Zip Tie.
* 478INOX Bottle Boss M5 Stainless Steel. Dead Ended, to prevent water entering the frame through the bosses.
* C-33-2N or BP2144 - twin cable stop (depending on which can be bought in stainless and what fits the tubes best)

Cheers,

WD