Anyone an expert in Rene Herse frames?

[emcg76]

Has anyone else come across this Rene Herse frame on sale in Paris? It looks like a lovely frame in itself... despite it's ratty condition. But is it a real Herse?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/182417433536?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT


There are some strange things about it if it is. The lugs don't have that trademark cut that every other Rene Herse I've ever seen have? I've also never known a Herse of any era to have steel brake cable clips instead of cable stops or internal guides?

It's already had 3 bids over 400 euro and it's only been up a day or two!

Ebay frame lugs:

The real deal:

 

[Robbied196]

I think true Herse experts are quite thin on the ground, we could do with Jan Heine swinging by

I've also never seen a Rene Herse without brazed on cable guides. The serial numbers were made easy post 50's as the second two digits are the year, so 1962. Its not the first Herse I've seen with a cut off drop out, this seems to be a feature on a few frames. A lot of frames have some chrome which this also lacks. Possibly this was a frame order by someone who wanted an economic, minimum spec way of getting a Herse frame?

Its going to be an expensive frame and will cost a fortune do it justice as a full restoration. Imagine kitting it out with Herse brakes and chainset :shock:

 

[emcg76]

Re:

sYeah. I contacted the seller just out of interest and he gave similar answers to you. Said that Rene Herse would have made low-end bikes that did not have all the frills of the higher-end commissions. He also (rather worryingly) claimed that he could see no difference between the traditional Herse lugs and those on the ebay frame! I hope that the people bidding have done their homework. Because he certainly didn't offer anything like a direct answer explaining confirmed lineage from the original owner back to the Rene Herse shop.

You're right... my eyes water at the final cost for building this bike back up. But then again, you wouldn't want to touch the paintwork as that is about the one thing that links it back directly to the original Herse shop. My own purely sadistic fantasy would be to buy it, set it up sans-mudguards & sans-gears with 23c tires and chopped riser bars... and then post the pictures to Jan Heine's website as a Rene Herse "rat-fixie".

 

[Shanner]

Having (not recently) owned a Herse, I can confirm this is the real deal. All the elements are there. The finesse (and style) of the rear end are RH as is the wrap on the seat stays. Also you'll notice the distinctive cut out on the bracket (RH bracket). Finally the box lining and the signature (hand painted, not a logo) mark it as totally genuine.

The seller is not really au fait with RH obviously. 'Cheap' frames he did not make. This is obviously a road racing model, and were often no frills because the end user wanted clean lines. As such it's probably quite a rare model, and I expect bidding to be high, likely $3000+.

I bought mine before the Japanese got interested in this 'Samurai' quality bicycle maker!

 

[bduc61]

Re:

This looks the part :idea:

And true - you could probably say Herse did not do cheap frames but level of quality may have varied especially when times were getting tough ( he had to sell mopeds at a stage !) . The bikes he sold in the States after promotion of cyclotourism by Doctor Clifford Graves could possibly be less sophisticated.
But Herse is probably the only who did not let his standards go below a certain level ( still quite above other framemakers !)

By the way it can't be said for Singer which undoubtfully had some frames subcontracted outside his shop, which were of average quality , to be able to sell lower priced bicycles

actual bid at 1525 !