Allin of croydon information needed

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, talking of Allin adverts, I just come across this from a 1920 cycling, and thought I would add it to the thread. A big fan of Mr Cobb's output, excellent thread. Terry

 

[VeloFellow54]

Thanks Terry
Really interesting ad. I have Cycling more or less complete from 1949 to 1958 - they make very interesting reading.
I have a few from the 30's and these are even more interesting in many ways. Just wish they had mentioned the machines that were in the illustrations (had to be impartial I suppose) and more information about equipment and accessories would have been nice.

I now have 4 Allin frames - three of which I believe were built by Cobb. The 2 recent acquisitions were repainted in about 1983 (I am almost certain by Allin)

I am also helping the V-C C marque enthusiast for F H Grubb and between us we have made some interesting discoveries. The Grubb website will be revamped at some point.

Too many bikes to restore - not enough time !!

 

[VeloFellow54]

By way of an amendment to my previous post :

The first mention of a Stan Butler 'Special' frame that I can find in 'Cycling' is in the 15 December 1949 issue, not January 1950 as posted. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has an Allin machine from around this time or the early 50's to attempt to establish / clarify the frame styles at that time.

 

[VeloFellow54]

Still waiting to see those scans of Allin price lists from the 1940/1950 period. Also the frame book ?

 

[Ray_72]

More on Allin frames :
I have acquired a further 2 Allin frames recently that may be of interest.
The first of these has Ekla lugs and fits perfectly with the description in 'Cycling' from December 1948 describing the 'new' Stan Butler Model' (note use of singular - not 'models').This recent acquisition is stamped in the fork tube and left rear drop out with number 520. I am not certain that Allin continued to use Ekla lugs after around 1950 once Nervex lugs became available. Maybe a reader can clarify this point ?

The other frame that I own (almost identical except the top eyes and fork crown are a different design) is frame number 672. Sadly, frame 520 has been re painted. I believe this was done by Allins some time in the 1970's. The decals have all been replaced with water slide types and the seat tube decal simply reads 'Stan Butler Model'. Based on the information in Cycling from December 1948 it would be reasonable to assume that frame 520 cannot have been made earlier than 1948 which would appear to indicate that post war frame production commenced with a lower number than 500 (suggested on The Classic Lightweights site). I have attached a copy of the article from Cycling. A good description is given including frame angles and fork offset.

The second frame appears to be a fillet brazed, or more likely welded frame and is numbered (again on the fork tube and left rear drop out) with 1743. This one also has been refinished (I suspect) and also carries water slide decals. The decal on the seat tube being 'Popular Stan Butler Model'. I suspect that this dates from about 1964. Whilst a nicely finished frame, it in no way is comparable with the earlier frames being considerably heavier. Both frames 520 and 672 are extremely light in weight (compared to my 1950 Grubb Perfection) and have nicely 'cushioned' lugs.

I have compared the water slide decals on these frames with the vinyl types supplied by H Lloyd and feel certain that the decals on them originated at Allins. However I would be interested to know if anyone other than Lloyds have originated replacement decals for Allin machines of waterslide type.

Also,to attempt to clarify frame numbers / dates it would be interesting to compile a list of numbers if possible from earlier machines particularly if they have original paint / decals or receipts indicating dates. Perhaps other owners of early Allin frames may wish to contribute.

thread resurrection!

I have recently purchased frame set 1748. It would be interesting to compare.

I believe mine to be a stan butler standard as it fits the description taken from ads on classic lightweights I.e. frame Angles lugs etc.

Just need to work out how to upload!

Ray

 

[Ray_72]

More on Allin frames :
I have acquired a further 2 Allin frames recently that may be of interest.
The first of these has Ekla lugs and fits perfectly with the description in 'Cycling' from December 1948 describing the 'new' Stan Butler Model' (note use of singular - not 'models').This recent acquisition is stamped in the fork tube and left rear drop out with number 520. I am not certain that Allin continued to use Ekla lugs after around 1950 once Nervex lugs became available. Maybe a reader can clarify this point ?

I have compared the water slide decals on these frames with the vinyl types supplied by H Lloyd and feel certain that the decals on them originated at Allins. However I would be interested to know if anyone other than Lloyds have originated replacement decals for Allin machines of waterslide type.

Also,to attempt to clarify frame numbers / dates it would be interesting to compile a list of numbers if possible from earlier machines particularly if they have original paint / decals or receipts indicating dates. Perhaps other owners of early Allin frames may wish to contribute.

Firstly regarding lugs, Allin used many different lug styles over the years, in Peter Cobbs lair there were many boxes of lugs of these various types - bought in bulk and many were left over long after their production ceased*.

I have a number of sets of original waterslide decals including the two downtube font styles that were available. A friend has the Allin frame book and another worked in the shop for over two decades.

Think you may have mis-read the ad', viz your singular point. In any case typesetters were often guilty of typos !!! There were three Stan Butler models, all are detailed in the price lists I have in my collection.

Pics are useful when discussing frames.

Rk.


Frame book records would surely prove irrefutable!

*last year I bought two sets of Capella lugs - how old are they (rhetorical question I knowhow old they are) ?

 

[VeloFellow54]

thread resurrection!

I have recently purchased frame set 1748. It would be interesting to compare.

I believe mine to be a stan butler standard as it fits the description taken from ads on classic lightweights I.e. frame Angles lugs etc.

Just need to work out how to upload!

Ray

I have frame umber 1743 (fillet brazed)and it will be interesting to compare information. I have seen 1748 (it was on ebay recently ?) and have photos on file. 1748 one dates from 1963 based on my records. It was hard to tell from the photos on ebay whether the decals are originals or if the frame had been re painted. Perhaps check inside the BB or remove the forks to see if there are traces of earlier enamel. Normally the Stan Butler Models had a specific decal on the seat tube. Certainly yours could be a Stan Butler Standard. The lugs are Nervex of a style that was used by a number of other makers including Holdsworth. Will make a nice bike when built up.

 

[Flyboy]

Re:

Hi I have an Allin,Frame No 2528,its a Special I had built,I think around 1984. I had it built as a fast tourer. 531c and 74 degree angles 40" wheelbase. A real work of Art,I put many miles on it,Touring North Wales and the West Country,allways starting from My Croydon base. Over the years,the only thing I have changed is the Saddle,its that good. Dispite its milage it is still in very good condition,though I admit that these days I find the handling,a bit sharp! Still love it to bits. Late 70s early 80s I was a "Hangaround" at Allins,never belonged to a Club.

 

[VeloFellow54]

Would love to see pictures of it. I have a track frame number 2514 which I had previously dated to about 1985. It has some quite unusual features and is a great pleasure to ride.
(see picture) I was in contact with someone who worked at Allins at the time this was made. I wondered whether it had been built by Cliff Shrubb but the opinion is that it was one of Ray Moores. I also had seen recently a frame branded 'Whitehorse' which had me baffled. I learned that, again in the 80's, Allins bought in some frames and branded them Whitehorse rather than Allin which was only used on frames that they made, or had made for them specifically.

 

[Flyboy]

Trying to send a picture,hope it works