Aargh - they are re-inventing the wheel A G A I N

[pw_pw_la]

Somewhat related:

At the bike shop yesterday, a chap with a tubeless setup lugs his bike out of an Uber and walks in fuming.

$60 having been spent on a ride from the location in which he got the flat (is it still a flat if there's no tube? I don't know. I don't run them!) to the bike shop. I mean, I'm sure he could have gone to a closer shop pn foot, but this is his LBS (he even works there sometimes).

My first and only thought: I'd have fixed the flat, or switched out the innertube (for a combined cost of about $10) in about five minutes and kept riding.

Is there something I'm not getting?

Tubeless means regular overhaul (annoying) and the chance of failure so severe you're not even able to get home.

I've ridden home, carefully, with a sidewall split just on a fresh tube. Can that even happen with tubeless?

Doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd rather fix three flats on a ride and take a bit of a breather than deal with the headache of tubeless maintenance.

Screams marketing gimmick to me. Even though so many run it, so I'm sure I must just be stupid and wrong.

 

[Tsundere]

Somewhat related:

At the bike shop yesterday, a chap with a tubeless setup lugs his bike out of an Uber and walks in fuming.

$60 having been spent on a ride from the location in which he got the flat (is it still a flat if there's no tube? I don't know. I don't run them!) to the bike shop. I mean, I'm sure he could have gone to a closer shop pn foot, but this is his LBS (he even works there sometimes).

My first and only thought: I'd have fixed the flat, or switched out the innertube (for a combined cost of about $10) in about five minutes and kept riding.

Is there something I'm not getting?

Tubeless means regular overhaul (annoying) and the chance of failure so severe you're not even able to get home.

I've ridden home, carefully, with a sidewall split just on a fresh tube. Can that even happen with tubeless?

Doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd rather fix three flats on a ride and take a bit of a breather than deal with the headache of tubeless maintenance.

Screams marketing gimmick to me. Even though so many run it, so I'm sure I must just be stupid and wrong.

I went more than a year without having a puncture, last weekend I had one, a bad one too, something cut a 3-4mm hole in the tyre and the tube went flat in a couple of seconds.

Took me 10-15 minutes to fix, it's a ball ache, nobody needs that but the kit to set it straight weighs less than my phone and cost less than a can of pop. and I'm on my way in under a quarter of an hour like nothing happened. I can't see how problems occurring with any of these other systems can be resolved as easily, cheaply and quickly as that.

Sometimes we have the best answer, but those who can't muscle in on that particular action will always try and sell us alternatives, their great miracle cure for the life destroying event that is the occasional puncture, that is all we are seeing here.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Somewhat related:

At the bike shop yesterday, a chap with a tubeless setup lugs his bike out of an Uber and walks in fuming.

$60 having been spent on a ride from the location in which he got the flat (is it still a flat if there's no tube? I don't know. I don't run them!) to the bike shop. I mean, I'm sure he could have gone to a closer shop pn foot, but this is his LBS (he even works there sometimes).

My first and only thought: I'd have fixed the flat, or switched out the innertube (for a combined cost of about $10) in about five minutes and kept riding.

Is there something I'm not getting?

Tubeless means regular overhaul (annoying) and the chance of failure so severe you're not even able to get home.

I've ridden home, carefully, with a sidewall split just on a fresh tube. Can that even happen with tubeless?

Doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd rather fix three flats on a ride and take a bit of a breather than deal with the headache of tubeless maintenance.

Screams marketing gimmick to me. Even though so many run it, so I'm sure I must just be stupid and wrong.

I hear you....just you only live once and I've never tried it! A friend raved about it....when his tyres were worn out and took em off he reckoned he pulled 60 odd thorns out! Quite impressive!
But yeah no air long way home hmmm.
Mind Ive had those cluster punctures where you run out of all your patches and mates and had to do 25 mile slog out the saddle hanging over the bars...poor old rims!

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I went more than a year without having a puncture, last weekend I had one, a bad one too, something cut a 3-4mm hole in the tyre and the tube went flat in a couple of seconds.

Took me 10-15 minutes to fix, it's a ball ache, nobody needs that but the kit to set it straight weighs less than my phone and cost less than a can of pop. and I'm on my way in under a quarter of an hour like nothing happened. I can't see how any of these other systems can be resolves as easily, cheaply and quickly as that.

Sometimes we have the best answer, but those who can't muscle in on that particular action will always try and sell us alternatives, their great miracle cure for the life destroying event that is the occasional puncture, that is all we are seeing here.

I'm tempting fate now....my lucks gonna go pop....I haven't had a puncture for a year and a half now!

 

[pw_pw_la]

I went more than a year without having a puncture, last weekend I had one, a bad one too, something cut a 3-4mm hole in the tyre and the tube went flat in a couple of seconds.

Took me 10-15 minutes to fix, it's a ball ache, nobody needs that but the kit to set it straight weighs less than my phone and cost less than a can of pop. and I'm on my way in under a quarter of an hour like nothing happened. I can't see how problems occurring with any of these other systems can be resolved as easily, cheaply and quickly as that.

Sometimes we have the best answer, but those who can't muscle in on that particular action will always try and sell us alternatives, their great miracle cure for the life destroying event that is the occasional puncture, that is all we are seeing here.

Exactly.

I've had two flats on the same bike in the same week recently.

At worst it "ruined" a combined twenty minutes of riding time.

Twenty minutes of catching my breath, rehydrating and stopping to admire the nature around me while I fixed them.

Another factor: even if you're out of patches, or you get a second flat having used the spare tube you're carrying under the saddle, I still fancy my chances of finding any old bike shop with a 26" inner tube for $10 over one that has just right tire and/or sealant.

Another, another factor: you can rip out a tube and stuff a tire with grass and moss and random trail debris to make it down a mountain in a pinch. Can you do that with tubeless? Can you do it as quickly?

 

[pw_pw_la]

Also, I feel about tubeless (60 thorns!) the way I feel about modern full-suspension: Yeah, that's great and all, but it's also because you're not judging terrain and picking lines the same way anymore; just plowing through it all at the highest speeds possible, without factoring in the environment around and ahead of you.

Which I'm sure is nice for some people.

But I like the challenge of looking at what's in front of me and trying to navigate the best possible course.

Sometimes a flat is reminder that I could do better!

I do have a fair number of masochistic tendencies tho. So I'm not going to pretend that's not a factor!

I do ride daily on 30 year old saddles, after all.

 

[brocklanders023]

Tubeless means regular overhaul (annoying) and the chance of failure so severe you're not even able to get home.

I've ridden home, carefully, with a sidewall split just on a fresh tube. Can that even happen with tubeless?

Doesn't seem worth it to me. I'd rather fix three flats on a ride and take a bit of a breather than deal with the headache of tubeless maintenance.

Screams marketing gimmick to me. Even though so many run it, so I'm sure I must just be stupid and wrong.

Nonsense. All my modern bikes run tubeless and there's virtually no maintenance. Bit of extra fluid every now and then, if I remember, that's it. Any puncture that would total a tubeless tyre would total a tubed one and there's nothing stopping you carrying a tube to use if necessary. I used to but stopped as I've never needed one. To change a tubeless set up back to tubed requires nothing more than removing the valve!

Fixing punctures is a pita, extra rolling mass is a pita. Tubeless is a no brainer imo.

 

[clubby]

Another factor: even if you're out of patches, or you get a second flat having used the spare tube you're carrying under the saddle, I still fancy my chances of finding any old bike shop with a 26" inner tube for $10 over one that has just right tire and/or sealant.

Another, another factor: you can rip out a tube and stuff a tire with grass and moss and random trail debris to make it down a mountain in a pinch. Can you do that with tubeless? Can you do it as quickly?

Guy’s problem was no different than if he had a tubed set up and didn’t take a spare and a pump. Tubeless stops the majority of punctures and if it doesn’t, all you need to do is pop in a tube to get you home. If you’re not prepared and don’t have one that’s not the fault of the set up. With tyre plug tools, most times it just a case of plug, pump and go.

Also, I call on that grass myth. Tried it once as a kid on a 1.5” tyre and couldn’t get nearly enough to fill the carcass. Even if you could there wouldn’t be enough tension to hold the bead in place when riding.

As for the earlier question about sealant weight. I run 60ml per tyre that weighs about 75g.

 

[mk one]

Also, I call on that grass myth. Tried it once as a kid on a 1.5” tyre and couldn’t get nearly enough to fill the carcass. Even if you could there wouldn’t be enough tension to hold the bead in place when riding.

Not a myth, we packed a friends tyre with grass from a verge many years ago, got him home, at least 10 miles. A bit of a hippie he ended up keeping the grass in once home. Tbf he never really rode off road much, just to the shops a stuff, but it definitely works.

 

[Peachy!]

Not as heavy as tubes though.

2 ounces or 57g of sealant compared to 65g latex tubes? I’m quite happy giving up 16g to not have to deal with all that disgusting mess.